V6 Upgrade.

[Svenne]

But please don't advocate piracy because of Arturia's pricing policy.

Please respect your fellow members on this forum, and refrain from false accusations. I have in no way or form advocated software piracy. I just stated that it exists! It is common knowledge that unrealistic pricing is a strong driving force behind software piracy. Had I advocated it, I wouldn't have stated that I will wait until Arturia asks for a reasonable price.

Do you really want a world where a customer aren't allowed to express dissatisfaction with a company or product, without being unfairly attacked?

You say that you consider 50% of the retail price (rp) to be a reasonable price for an upgrade. If you make a little research you'll find that the vast majority of software vendors charge between 20-30% of the rp. If we take the middle ground and assume that €199 is 25% of the rp, then Arturia would have to raise the rp to 796. Do you think that anyone would pay that for V Collection v6?

If you want to see a price change, wait for a sale, and lobby for a price change, like you are doing now. 

Why? Why shouldn't I, and other customers, be allowed to voice our dissatisfaction with Arturias unrealistic pricing policy. Complaints are the only thing that may make them change their minds. That's how the world works.

If you want to pirate this update, you are on an ilegal path, plus you're enticing Arturia into buying or developing more anti-piracy measures instead of developing better products, which comes at extra costs.
Guess who is going to pay that bill.

One again, stop spreading false accusations! I don't know what copy protection has to do with it, but you may be right. Let's look at some history. When v4 was updated to V5 Arturia switched from a strong copy protection "eLicencer" to a weak one ASC. The proof? You hardly ever see eLicencer protected software pirated. Google is riddled with links to pirated ARC protected software, within days of it's release.

As I've said. You may very well be right (in a way). At same time that Arturia switched copy protection system, they also doubled the upgrade price, from €99 to €199 (without raising the rp). So it appears that it's the loyal customers that has to "foot the bill", for the adoption of an inferior copy protection system.

[gregwalton42]

I think the biggest barrier to buying the upgrade (for me) is that, apart from PianoV, they are all at version 1. Look at the bugs, for example, Matrix12V version 1, still has - like the horrible noise it makes switching presets.

In my opinion Arturia are too focused on adding feature lists to get new sales than on improving functionality to get a good reputation, retain customers and improve their long-term sales.

I hate to say it, particularly as I love Modular V SO MUCH, but collection 6 might be their last if they keep on screwing over loyal customers

[jackn2mpu]

Missed the thread, curious about it. Can mods explain why it was removed?

It's still there (https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=91755.0), but it's closed by moderation for new posts or answers. Why?

Saw that thread as well and wanted to reply there but it's locked with no notice from Arturia that it was locked. $199US for this upgrade? You have got to be joking Arturia. I'll wait until both the price comes down and the bugs get fixed.

Wonder how long before this thread gets locked as well?

edit for additional - two other threads talking about the upgrade price have also been locked. This one: https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=91763.0
and this one: https://forum.arturia.com/index.php?topic=91761.0

[jackn2mpu]

I think the biggest barrier to buying the upgrade (for me) is that, apart from PianoV, they are all at version 1. Look at the bugs, for example, Matrix12V version 1, still has - like the horrible noise it makes switching presets.

In my opinion Arturia are too focused on adding feature lists to get new sales than on improving functionality to get a good reputation, retain customers and improve their long-term sales.

I hate to say it, particularly as I love Modular V SO MUCH, but collection 6 might be their last if they keep on screwing over loyal customers

How about the new bugs introduced with the existing synth updates? Jup-8 misses the lower part of the keyboard and controls on the left of the keyboard until you open the top of the synth. Also the Rhodes and Wurli pianos don't see my MIDI interface while every other synth in the Arturia line-up does? Thankfully I have the previous installers to overwrite this mess.

[MajorFubar]

The thing I was most disappointed about is V Collection 5 owners don't get Piano V2. I realize Arturia rely on us buying this stuff in order to pay wages to their developers to make new stuff, and on it goes...but expecting us pay for basically an incremental upgrade to an existing VST is a bit naughty. It's hardly a ground-up re-write, compared to VC4 and VC5

Highly suspect they will be very disappointed by how little interest V6 gets from existing customers over the festive period. I will wait for the inevitable Spring / Summer special offer when the whole chebang will no doubt get dropped in price to €299 and VC5 owners will be offered a €99 upgrade.

[jackn2mpu]

The thing I was most disappointed about is V Collection 5 owners don't get Piano V2. I realize Arturia rely on us buying this stuff in order to pay wages to their developers to make new stuff, and on it goes...but expecting us pay for basically an incremental upgrade to an existing VST is a bit naughty. It's hardly a ground-up re-write, compared to VC4 and VC5

Highly suspect they will be very disappointed by how little interest V6 gets from existing customers over the festive period. I will wait for the inevitable Spring / Summer special offer when the whole chebang will no doubt get dropped in price to €299 and VC5 owners will be offered a €99 upgrade.

I'm not surprised we didn't get Piano V2 as that's essentially a new instrument the way other instruments went from V2 to V3 when VC5 dropped. VC4 users didn't get the new V3 instruments without paying. Actually if the new pianos are anything like what's in Analog Lab 3 then as far as I'm concerned - they still suck lemons 

[jackn2mpu]

On a general note, now that I've had time to go through the presets of the new models that are in "Analog" Lab 3 (getting less analog every time) I'm a bit more positive about VC6.

The Clavinet V is just a clavinet - OK if you need it but pretty much the same as all the other clavinets you've already got. Piano V2 seems to be a big improvement - but you could argue it's only what it should have been in the first place. The DX7V is actually a bit of a revelation - it's doesn't seem as harsh as the real thing and should have a wealth of varied presets available if it takes DX7 sysex. The CMI V can actually take user samples and do a lot with them - two things worry me, though: can it do anything that isn't lo-fi (like the 8-bit original sounds) and will I spend forever just messing about with samples? Also it looks like the reason we never got sample import in Synclavier V was that it would have taken away the attraction of CMI V.

The Buchla Easel V is probably the biggest attraction for me. It gives all the weirdness and more I was hoping for from a VCS3/AKS/Synthi emulation. I have been doing some odd stuff - Space Rock and sound effects - which the easel would be well-suited to doing. I tend to go to Modular V at the moment, despite its faults - which are much less than the real thing, I imagine. Modular V and 2600V seem very logical to me, having been brought up on analogue synths, so the Easel might inspire me to work in different ways.

Don't get me wrong - I still think €199 is a bit steep for loyal customers who have put up with unresolved bugs while these new models were being developed

It seems like the DX7 is a lot easier to get around on then FM8 from NI, at least from what I can see in the YouTube videos. I had an original DX7-IID so am very familiar with the interface and what it could do and it seems like the Arturia one is in that same vein.

Was excited when I saw the CMI - came out about the same time the Synclavier did. Disappointed that from what you write that there's only lo-fi sounds. You also hit on a sore point with me and a few others about the Synclavier - no ability to import your own samples (aka resynthesis). I don't see how having that feature in the Synclavier would take away from the CMI - why can't both synths truly emulate the real thing? Arturia has no apparent roadmap to ever doing resynthesis in the Synclavier.

And that price -  VC5 has been on sale the last few months at $250US and now they want another $199 for the VC6 upgrade? Nuts.

[MajorFubar]

I'm not surprised we didn't get Piano V2 as that's essentially a new instrument the way other instruments went from V2 to V3 when VC5 dropped. VC4 users didn't get the new V3 instruments without paying. Actually if the new pianos are anything like what's in Analog Lab 3 then as far as I'm concerned - they still suck lemons 

VC4 to VC5 was clearly a big re-write. I didn't expect to get that for free. Piano V2 seems like an incremental upgrade to me: I see new presets and the interface has changed slightly, however it's basically the same instrument.  But tagging it as 'V2' allows them to promote it as a new instrument and charge punters separately for it. But I'm not buying that, neither figuratively nor literally.

[gregwalton42]

Disappointed that from what you write that there's only lo-fi sounds.

I have to admit I'm wrong there. I've looked at the manual and it does say it will work up to 16-bit. I was just worried on hearing the original presets.

Overall, though, it comes over as a not-very-good sampler. There is nothing in the manual that suggests there are any tools to help you get inaudible loop points - and the original presets again suggest not. The resynthesis may be the way to go but I'll have to wait for someone who has it to comment

[MajorFubar]

Overall, though, it comes over as a not-very-good sampler. There is nothing in the manual that suggests there are any tools to help you get inaudible loop points - and the original presets again suggest not. The resynthesis may be the way to go but I'll have to wait for someone who has it to comment

It's a recreation of a 40 year old sampler that couldn't do the things you expect the VST to now do. There are a thousand ways to do what you want with other third-party VSTs and with tools already built into most decent DAWs, this is supposed to a replication of a CMI, eccentricities included. Give them at least a bit of a break.

[jackn2mpu]

Overall, though, it comes over as a not-very-good sampler. There is nothing in the manual that suggests there are any tools to help you get inaudible loop points - and the original presets again suggest not. The resynthesis may be the way to go but I'll have to wait for someone who has it to comment

It's a recreation of a 40 year old sampler that couldn't do the things you expect the VST to now do. There are a thousand ways to do what you want with other third-party VSTs and with tools already built into most decent DAWs, this is supposed to a replication of a CMI, eccentricities included. Give them at least a bit of a break.

This CMI is NOT a replica of the original; close but not quite there. Just the way the Synclavier is close but not quite there either.

[Valentin Arturia]

Which points make you think the CMI V is NOT a good replica ?
Synclavier engine has been written with the original programmer so it can't be so far of the original. The engine is fine but this is Synclavier V and not Synclavier II, 6400 or other.

[jackn2mpu]

Which points make you think the CMI V is NOT a good replica ?
Synclavier engine has been written with the original programmer so it can't be so far of the original. The engine is fine but this is Synclavier V and not Synclavier II, 6400 or other.

At the risk of this devolving into a bash at the Synclavier and not the CMI - here goes - Synclavier had resampling/resynthesis and the one Arturia does does NOT have that. I call that not a replica but a faint echo of the original.

[Valentin Arturia]

Not all Synclavier versions had resynthesis. We also add more partial, voices... than other Synclavier versions  so I'm not sure calling it "faint echo" is the right word. We know that Synclavier resynthesis is a wanted feature but it is not as simple to implement.

[jackn2mpu]

Not all Synclavier versions had resynthesis. We also add more partial, voices... than other Synclavier versions  so I'm not sure calling it "faint echo" is the right word. We know that Synclavier resynthesis is a wanted feature but it is not as simple to implement.

'Not as simple to implement' I take that as it's not going to happen which is a shame. Those words are also a poor excuse for not getting it done. Seems like Arturia is picking and choosing what features to implement rather than giving us a true emulation of the instrument based on their programming ability (or inability).