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Author Topic: Ideal Midi controller for CS 80  (Read 18011 times)

Stephan

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Ideal Midi controller for CS 80
« on: October 22, 2003, 02:06:46 pm »
Allright - I'm sold on the CS-80V and will order it as soon as it becomes available.   Can anyone recommend a midi controller that would work best with the CS-80V?  Would a V-synth work well?


Thank you for your time


Stephan

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Ideal Midi controller for CS 80
« Reply #1 on: October 22, 2003, 02:43:19 pm »
Since the CS-80V responds to polyphonic aftertouch, you might consider a used controller that transmits poly AT.  (I'm not aware of anything new that has it.)  This feature on the origninal CS-80 contributed greatly to its expressiveness.

Anonymous

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Ideal Midi controller for CS 80
« Reply #2 on: October 22, 2003, 03:00:36 pm »
I found two - the Roland A-80 and A-50 both advertise polyphonic aftertouch, but contain no sliders or ribbon control...

...does anybody from arturia know if there is a polyaftertouch controller in the works?

David Rogoff

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Ideal Midi controller for CS 80
« Reply #3 on: October 22, 2003, 10:35:06 pm »
Quote from: "Anonymous"
I found two - the Roland A-80 and A-50 both advertise polyphonic aftertouch, but contain no sliders or ribbon control...

...does anybody from arturia know if there is a polyaftertouch controller in the works?


This is the $64,000 question!  I've owned two CS-80s and an A-80.  The A-80 is great for a piano action, but the aftertouch is virtually useless - way to hard to press.  I also tried an old Ensonique SQ-80.  Not too bad, and very cheap.  Feels cheap too, and mine had a few keys with very uneven pressure response.   The A-50 might be good (and fairly small/light), but I never tried one.

I think the best would be an old Kurzweil MIDI-board, although it's been years since I tried one.  Speaking of Kurzweil, their Expressionmate seems to be the best way to add the CS-80 ribbon to a controller.

As far as I know, there are no poly-aftertouch controller keyboards being made.  I'd love it if someone would make one!

 David

Stephan

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THanks to all and ATTN:Arturia
« Reply #4 on: October 23, 2003, 01:58:50 pm »
Well, with the A-80 (and A-50 they are more or less identical) out of the picture, I think I'll use my V-synth as the controller for now and use the d-beams as a substitute for the ribbon.  I hope demand is high enough for the cs-80v that somebody makes a controller with polyAT that is suitable, up to date with technology, and not expensive (although I can't imagine it being cheap either).

ARTURIA: perhaps you can talk to Novation or some other company and work together to make a controller for the cs-80v.

Anonymous

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Kurzweil Expressionmate
« Reply #5 on: October 23, 2003, 03:25:14 pm »
Quote from: "Anonymous"
I found two - the Roland A-80 and A-50 both advertise polyphonic aftertouch, but contain no sliders or ribbon control...

...does anybody from arturia know if there is a polyaftertouch controller in the works?


Good news!
We will certainly make a bundle offer on our website; i.e. sell this Expressionmate ribbon controller together with the CS-80V.
Actually Kurzweil wants to dispose of their very last copies of Expressionmate (about 50 - I'm not sure but I think they have stopped production).
We are currently exploring this possibility, but nothing is sure for the moment.

More about Expressionmate: http://www.kurzweilmusicsystems.com/html/expmate.html

David
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pitriago

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Ideal Midi controller for CS 80
« Reply #6 on: October 24, 2003, 12:38:36 pm »
Great!!!! I would really hear how much that'll be. I own a CS-80, but frankly I've ran out of phisycal space; this would be a solution for me

Marzzz

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Ideal Midi controller for CS 80
« Reply #7 on: October 25, 2003, 05:56:11 am »
I would love to be able to use the ribbon from my Andromeda to control the CS-80V; PolyAftertouch is more of a problem......the Roland A-80 is a great piano keyboard, but it is miserable for using aftertouch- you need hands of steel, even with the resistor modification.

Aside from a Kurzweil MidiBoard, another good polyAT keyboard would be a GeneralMusic S2 or S3; They are relatively well built, and the poly AT is reasonable well implemented.

Glen Darcey

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A80 Poly aftertouch
« Reply #8 on: October 27, 2003, 01:09:03 am »
I used to work at Roland and I believe that we at Roland US came up with a mod to make the A80 aftertouch useable. You may try contacting the Roland USA service department and try talking to one of the older guys.

David Rogoff

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Re: A80 Poly aftertouch
« Reply #9 on: October 27, 2003, 06:03:15 pm »
Quote from: "Glen Darcey"
I used to work at Roland and I believe that we at Roland US came up with a mod to make the A80 aftertouch useable. You may try contacting the Roland USA service department and try talking to one of the older guys.


I had this mod done.  It was still awful!  I would have broken my pinky before reaching full pressure.  The problem is mechanical.  The A80 has a fantastic action as a piano.  After playing and owning many keyboards I've realized that you can't have a keyboard that feels like a piano and has good aftertouch.  The problem is that a good aftertouch requires some give/sponginess on the keybed when pressing harder.  

The CS-80 keys probably went 1/8" or so beyond the key-down position.  The A-80 had no give, so there was no tactile feedback.

 David

asheraa

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ENSONIQ
« Reply #10 on: November 03, 2003, 05:04:52 am »
I am buying an Ensoniq TS-10 beacuse of the Poly-touch.
Beware NOT ALL ENSONIQ keyboards had poly key transmit over MIDI, so allways read the manuals offered online.

husker

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Ideal Midi controller for CS 80
« Reply #11 on: November 05, 2003, 08:57:29 am »
Just got an Elka MK55 contoller keyboard for $100 which has full poly aftertouch (VERY good aftertouch too, you can select different sensitivity curves). Highly recommend these if you can find them (and it's bigger brother the MK88).

Tried it with the CS-80V demo and it's just awesome. I'm totally hooked. Just ordered the CS-80V + the ExpressionMate + the T-Shirt!  :D

No all I have to do is wait...  :shock:

asheraa

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TS-10
« Reply #12 on: November 07, 2003, 04:42:24 am »
Just tried the Ensoniq ts-10 with the SQ-80V using the poly (key )aftertouch !

Finally !!!    polyaftertouch is a MUST !!  why the hell current keyboard manufacturers do not include polyaftertouch on current models escapes my imagination. All I can think is that there are no musicians on those companies ! ( well, Vangelis said this 20 or so years ago ... )

Well done Arturia!  the monster sounds great !  But it only uses 15% of my CPU at any time!  I want more voices !  16 please!

www.ashera.com

asheraa

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TS-10
« Reply #13 on: November 07, 2003, 04:42:39 am »
Just tried the Ensoniq ts-10 with the SQ-80V using the poly (key )aftertouch !

Finally !!!    polyaftertouch is a MUST !!  why the hell current keyboard manufacturers do not include polyaftertouch on current models escapes my imagination. All I can think is that there are no musicians on those companies ! ( well, Vangelis said this 20 or so years ago ... )

Well done Arturia!  the monster sounds great !  But it only uses 15% of my CPU at any time!  I want more voices !  16 please!

www.ashera.com

mmetlay

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Poly keyboards
« Reply #14 on: November 19, 2003, 05:49:33 pm »
Quote from: "David Rogoff"
Quote from: "Anonymous"
I found two - the Roland A-80 and A-50 both advertise polyphonic aftertouch, but contain no sliders or ribbon control...

...does anybody from arturia know if there is a polyaftertouch controller in the works?


This is the $64,000 question!  I've owned two CS-80s and an A-80.  The A-80 is great for a piano action, but the aftertouch is virtually useless - way to hard to press.  I also tried an old Ensonique SQ-80.  Not too bad, and very cheap.  Feels cheap too, and mine had a few keys with very uneven pressure response.   The A-50 might be good (and fairly small/light), but I never tried one.


The A-50 is neither small nor light. Dean Swan, one of the people who played on my albums in the early 1990s, has one that he still uses today. It's built like a tank and works flawlessly (the poly pressure is much lighter than the A-80's), and compared to the A-80 I guess it's light, but it's still over 30 pounds. Problem is, you can't find one anywhere... their owners don't sell them.

Quote from: "David Rogoff"
I think the best would be an old Kurzweil MIDI-board, although it's been years since I tried one.


The MIDIboard is a very good controller but has its downsides: the poly pressure is great and it has good onboard arpeggiation and program splits etc., but it uses an impact sensor rather than an actual velocity sensor, which means that if you play with a light touch, key bounce can cause notes to choke themselves off. Many well-trained pianists find this maddening. And it weighs enough to stun an ox. 75 pounds without stand and pedals, I think.

On the other hand, it has something you don't see in controllers any more: a flat top for stacking. In the old days, you'd put a MiniMg and a Solina up there, or a DX7; these days, a laptop running CS-80V and an Expressionmate would leave you enough room for another keyboard! ;)

Quote from: "David Rogoff"
As far as I know, there are no poly-aftertouch controller keyboards being made.  I'd love it if someone would make one!


So would I. So would a number of people. The question is, how many? Enough to justify the R&D to get the technology right and reliable?

I have been crusading for years, on the Internet and in my magazine, to get manufacturers to keep even ordinary channel pressure sensors in their keyboards, and no one in the USB/MIDI arena has listened other than Novation--most say it's just plain not going to happen with current or projected designs. Given that climate, demanding poly pressure may be tilting at windmills.

You have to remember: as opposed to the situation in the 1980s, where many companies that built synths made their own keyboard actions, there are now only two, maybe three, generic factories making all the keyboard actions in the whole synth world today. If they decide they're not making one with a particular feature set, you're not going to find it in the marketplace, especially not in controller made by small companies who have the most to benefit from supporting products like the CS-80V.

Ever wonder why there was a period of several years where you could easily get European keyboards with 4 or 5 octaves and channel pressure (The Nord Lead 3, the Microwave XTk, the Virus kb), but 3 octaves and less didn't have it (the original Indigo, the Nord Modular)? And suddenly several keyboards at once appeared with 3 octaves and channel pressure (the MicroQ, the Indigo II, and now the Nord G2)? The factory that made and supplied the keyboards changed its policy. If anyone thinks there's a manufacturer out there who really has enough pull to make the factories put poly pressure back into a keyboard action, they should start writing to them now. I recommend starting with whomever is now supplying Novation with 2-octave channel pressure keyboards, as they seem most open to suggestions...and Novation themselves, who seem to get a kick out of offering performance features no one else can match.

Fortunately it's not an issue for me at the moment; I have a colleague with an Ensoniq ASR10 he's not using, which should do fine for me as a controller. Once I've had a chance to play with CS-80V (it just arrived yesterday, thanks guys!), I will make a decision about getting something more permanent for using it.

I personally doubt that the demand for poly pressure keyboards will even be enough to make prices of Ensoniq keyboards on Ebay go up noticeably. Pessimism or realism? You decide.

mike
Mike Metlay
Associate Editor, RECORDING MAGAZINE
mike@recordingmag.com

 

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