Applying Effects within CS-80V

[PSB]

Hello everyone! Is there anybody who could share some info regarding the application of different kinds of effects (reverb, chorus, flanger, etc.) within CS-80-V?

Can you apply a reverb to a preset within CS-80V and then save it as a new preset? How do you apply (and later modify) a reverb to your new sound that you have just created within the CS-80V environment?

Thanks for sharing,

PSB  [/b]

[omissis]

Well.

CS-80V has neither reverb nor flanger, you must apply the separate plug ins  to the synth's output you can't save it as a CS-80preset but you can save it in the setup you built on your Host....!

[PSB]

Hi Max,

Thanks for your response. Well then, how do you apply the plug-ins into the CS80V output? I am using SONAR 3 Producer. There are bunch of plug-ins (including reverb, flanger, etc) available. Now, we are talking about using CS80V as a DXi synth. That's easy. BUT what about if you use CS80V as a stand alone soft synth? Do you need to have a a hardware effects processor for applying special effcts like reverb, flanger, etc.?

Does it men that Vangelis' string sounds created with CS80 went through some external hardware effects processor to get that huge reverb?

What do you mean by saving the setup with the host application?

PSB

[omissis]

Well it's not a matter of how you set the CS-80V, it's a matter of how you chain effects on the virtual rack in your host or, if you use effects plug ins in s.alone mode as well, how do you set them  when using the synth: if they work in stand alone  too they can be set up and this can be saved as a preset on the effect presets' file:so open your synth, chain it to the effects , tweak them until you reach your favourite sound then save each setting, I mean, if you're using a host it can be easier ( although I don't know how Sonar works).

Now let's clear some things : when you talk about string pad Vangelis used do you mean the strings you can listen from "China" to "Short Stories" or the one you can hear in Bladerunner or Chariots of fire?

The first titles feature strings from CS-80 , you can notice them istantaneously, the strings have much vibrato and a particular, nasal flavour which comes from CS-80 ( I watched a video where V plays live the track "The Dragon" from China and he plays the Yamaha synth!)
In the latter titles the strings DON?T COME OUT FROM YAMAHA CS-80!!!! They rather come from a nice Roland thing: the VP330 Vocoder Plus, which has a famous string pad together with the best mellotronish Synth choir I've ever heard ( this also you can hear on the latter titles); the "stereo spread" effect comes from the onboard Chorus effect which was an unswitchable feature in the string pad preset: this effect is nailed again from an old Chorus effect, the Roland Dimension D which is a lot sought after for its quality...that's why I would love to see an emulation of the Vocoder plus in the next future :wink:

The reverb Vangelis used from 1980 is a Lexicon 224, Yamaha CS-80 never had rev effects on board :wink:

[PSB]

Hi Max,

Thanks for your response. The first part now is clear. I have realized that there are no presets of effects within CS80V. I use SONAR and applying effects to the DXi synth (which CS80V can function as one) is no problem.

NOW! The Vangelis story. Thanks a lot for posting this information about his gear and how he is using it. Yes, I know that he used CS80-V for China (I saw the video as well) and Short Stories. You can hear this distinctive sound. I just wish that someone in this Forum could try to recreate a preset with such sound.  

I didn't know that he used Roland Vocoder for Bladerunner. Now, THAT is a fabulous sound, don't you think? But my absolute favorite sound of Vangelis' strings is from Antarctica. Nothing can beat that in my humble opinion. The sound is just supperb.

When I have got CS-80V I was truly amaized about the programming possibilities of this instrument. Even though I am not a programming guru I have made a promise to myself to learn about programming CS-80V as much as I can.  :wink:

I like to write my original compositions using those spacey strings. Vangelis and J.M Jarre are my biggest infulences. If you have time check out my web site at www.psbelectronicmusic.com  On the MUSIC page you can find my version of Blade Runner under "TRAVELS" CD. Let me know what you think.

OK, sorry for the lengthy post.
 :wink:
PSB

[omissis]

Vangelis used the Roland Vocoder for strings, choirs and....vocoding from "See you later" to "Sauvage et Beau" (unreleased) so even on Antarctica you can hear a Vocoder Plus making the strings part....the other side is how they were mixed, if you hear carefully there's a difference between Raphael Preston's "sound" and Raine Shine's...on the latter the strings and choirs are slightlier brilliant than on the previous, so this is only a matter of post production: on a disc you actually don't hear a sound: you hear a sound put into a mixer, passed thru effects, tweaked as the Producer's likes recorded on analog/digital tapemachines etc.
As I told in previous posts the Vocoder had a great onboard Chorus which drastically affected the timbre so there wasn't much need for processing it :wink:  (btw a very similar chorus lies in my Roland Super JX so I can make some serious "Vangelis" string pads!).You could then have two parts layered, layer two footage strings or strins and choirs or layering the vocoder too and then you were ready to sing "O SUPERMAN"   !!!
The drawback in Roland Vocoder was it was a Paraphonic keyboard ( that is full polyphony but made with frequency division of few circuits ) so all the 49 keys did share the same envelope (one) and filters (three) and you couldn't make complex string parts because when pressing a key the sound shooted immediately and unnaturally out ( there the reverb helped Vangelis a lot ), the keys weren't sensitive in all ways and , all in all the sound needed more processing than expected because it isn't this fatness ( as you notice in V records )....anyway a VP330 sound is a very simple thing to do with anyanalog synthesizer....what you will miss would be the Chorus.... :evil:


By the way, I simply love the Human voice sound from the Roland vocoder....no one has been so good to reproduce it.....it is a magic sound :cry:

[PSB]

Hey Max, I am simply blown away with all that info that you have about Vangelis' gear. Very valuable information for those electronic fans that are after his sound. By the way, is this Roland vocoder still available for sale somewhere? I know that it is probably considered a vintage gear.

Anyway, going back to CS80-V; I have seen Vangelis playing the original CS-80 on a short video clip on the internet. Those string truly sounded briliant and "spacey". I bet he was feeding the signal from CS-80 into some hardware reverb unit since there is no reverb on board of CS-80. Do you think that the brass sounds of his were also programmed on CS-80? This CS-80V deffinitely has a capacity to create such sounds. Any idea where a "newbe" can get some help in terms of programming the brass sound on CS-80V? Some basic suggestion as far as from which type of wave should one start programming this sound (sine, triangle, square, etc.)? You know, that kind of sound from "Chariots" or "Blade Runner". With slow attack, swelling, and then slowly fading away. That is one awesome sound! I wonder if CS-80V can do that.... Hmmmm...

How old is your Roland Super JX? Is it still available for sale somewhere? Let me know.

Happy CS-80Ving!!!  :wink:

PSB

[omissis]

Hi PSB

I'm fond of V music but not only , I enjoy Tangerine's "cosmic" years ( I mean Zeit and Atem ), some Schulze's and some progressive too ( actually I love the music that the Spheric Lounge posse from Germany actually produces...they're against copyrighting and so I can have it for free...really amazing!!)

Unfortunately the VP 330 was in production for only two years , round the same time CS-80 was in production (1978-80) so it is serious vintage gear with all the drawbacks of it ( high prices when you're able to find one, it's also rare :roll:  , unreliability, although Roland never failed in building solid things )....

About a CS-80 "vangelised" :wink:  yes, V used lots of reverb but this happened even in the early years....at the time when he had his first CS-80 on loan for producing "Spiral" ( he happened to buy another EIGHT of them ) he used the Masterrom Spring Reverb which was an enormous unit , a sort of a column which was able to reverb a sound for nearly 7 seconds !!!! This until 1980 when he enjoyed the Lexicon 224 (s.n. 0002!!!!) which has been his main effect until Nemo was dismantled!!! Vangelis used the onboard Chorus on CS-80 then the output was passed in the mixer and sent to the effects (these comprised a delay also which name I don't remember, sorry :wink: ). It was the reverb and delay combination which helped to spread the sound.
BTW: V used the effects subtly; it's clear he applied long time reverbs but he mixed the wet signal  not to wrap the dry one!
Again, V used presets A LOT !!! The "Hymne" lead was simply GUITAR 1 + BASS, the "Chariots" brass was only BRASS 1 + BRASS 3, with slightly aftertouch applied on one of the lines to better get a "sforzato" sound...nothing more :wink: !!! The main game is modulating the sound with aftertouch , by applying the right amount to Level , Brilliance and Sub Oscillator...it's easier than what you expect :wink:

BTW : Roland Super JX is not hard to find and has a really sweet sound in my tastes, you can get a tastier dish if you would find it together with its PG-800 programmer !!

[PSB]

Thanks Max for all this info. Pretty fascinating. When you talk about presets in CS-80V I am a little confused or maybe we have different versions of the CS-80V.

You wrote: V used presets A LOT !!! The "Hymne" lead was simply GUITAR 1 + BASS, the "Chariots" brass was only BRASS 1 + BRASS 3, with slightly aftertouch applied on one of the lines to better get a "sforzato" sound...nothing more  

I was trying to find those presets within my CS-80V and cannot find them. You are mentioning specific titles (Hymne, Chariots). When you talk about those presets are you refering to CS-80V or not?

I have got the picture regarding the use of reverb by V. That's what I thought he did. CS-80 out to mixer with the aux Effects inserts. Hmmmm.... Lexicon? No wonder , it's probably the best effects processor.

Can you share more info regarding the adjustment of the aftertouch in CS-80V?

You are very kind, Max, for sharing all this information regarding CS-80 and Vangelis. I am sure that many people will benefit from it if they will arrive at this info board.  

Good CS-80Ving!

PSB

[omissis]

Hi PSB

No way, the CS-80V is the same ! You have to watch the panel presets ( the coloured switches on the front panel )---> GUITAR1= the left green switch on the first row: BASS = first yellow button after two red buttons ; BRASS1= the only red button on first row, BRASS3= second red button on second row. For bass + guitar set the bass sound an octave lower. for brass1+3 tweak the aftertouch control until you reach your desired effect, it's mostly about how you "feel" the sound under your fingers!
PS: the sounds I mentioned you about are used in many many recordings not only in those I told you about in the  previous posts!
Happy playing

 :wink:

[Z]

Wow, this is truly amazing, Max, how come you know so much about Vangelis' use of the instruments and effects?

Maybe I can ask you a question about this, do you know how the lead sound on 'To The Unkown Man' was created? I am pretty sure it's the CS-80 since it sounds to me as what cannot be anything other than a heavy ribbon controller use at the last half of the song, but the patch he uses sounds to me as there are two layered patches?

[omissis]

:oops:

Hi Z

This is a simple and PRESET sound : GUITAR 1 + BASS ( as on Hymne ), remember these are PANEL presets ,not-file-managed : be careful for the MIX between I and II , on TTUM you have a (very) slightly louder BASS sound . On the bridge you can play the Glissandos with GUITAR 1 only and so with the final part where you also can adjust some RES-L  and lower Attack Time.

PS: Check my proposal to Arturians for building a software Direct Machine by reading my post and attached files (written by Direct's designer himself)....it's on Free Speech corner! :wink:

[PSB]

Hey Max!

Many thanks for all the info about Vangelis' use of CS-80. Gee, you know so much about it. VERY imrpessive.

Where is that Free Speech corner? How can I find it? I would REALLY like to read this proposal.

Let me know,

PSB   :wink:

[PSB]

OK, I have found it! Thanks for letting us know about it.

I'll read it and then will get back with you about it.

Thanx, Max

[Z]

This is a simple and PRESET sound : GUITAR 1 + BASS ( as on Hymne ), remember these are PANEL presets ,not-file-managed : be careful for the MIX between I and II , on TTUM you have a (very) slightly louder BASS sound . On the bridge you can play the Glissandos with GUITAR 1 only and so with the final part where you also can adjust some RES-L  and lower Attack Time.

Okay, I think I'm doing something wrong; if I select these two patches, they do not sound anything like the lead on TTUM (yes, the panel presets, not file managed). It's not anything with the mix between them, they simply just don't sound like the one he used.

Are you sure he used this patch combination, or is it heavily tweaked or did he use so much fx on it it's barely recognizable when compared to a 'clean' CS-80V with only a little chorus and reverb added?