Origin freezing??

[Infiltrator]

Hi,

I received my Origin yesterday and spent all day today to explore it.
I am absolutely stunned about the quality of the sound and the great structure of this synth.

I have only one problem:
Sometimes when I am editing different modules (no matter if in rack or patch mode) it happens that the Origin "freezes", means no sound is coming out of any of the Outs (Master and AUX outs). I can still step through the menues etc. but there is no sound at all.
I have to switch off the machine and turn it on again.
This seems to be a bug.

Any idea? Is this known to Arturia and will be fixed with the next update?
I hope so because editing the synth and loosing your programmed sound because of that is frustrating.

[Philippe]

I have only one problem:
Sometimes when I am editing different modules (no matter if in rack or patch mode) it happens that the Origin "freezes", means no sound is coming out of any of the Outs (Master and AUX outs). I can still step through the menues etc. but there is no sound at all.
I have to switch off the machine and turn it on again.
This seems to be a bug.

Yes this is a bug in the DSP firmware. The audio freeze occurs when the DSP kernel detects an abnormal situation. In such a case the UI is still fully operational. Since the release of the 1.0.x firmware we have noticed potential problem when:
- attempting to connect an AudioIN output to some patch module input when notes are currently active or have been played since the loading of the preset. By the way, AudioIN left and right channels are inverted (left is right and right is left).
- connecting/disconnecting or adding/removing modules in a patch when notes are currently active or have been played since the loading of the preset
- loading a slot of a multi when notes are currently active or have been played since the loading of the preset.

Voices - the internal DSP object that generates the sound - are dynamically assigned to a program when a note is played. These voices stay assigned to the program as long as they are not needed for another program (which may be the case in MULTI mode). When the patch is modified, these assigned voices have to be updated and this is during the update process that most of the audio freezes occur. There's a workaround for these bugs. It consists in pressing the PANIC switch (pressing PANIC switch clears all active voices) before doing patch editing. A safe - if not good - practice should be to frequently save your work.

We have began and plan to continue extensive tests of the next update (numbered 1.1) which is to be delivered before the end of June. Hopefully, these "live connections" bugs should be fixed then.

[Infiltrator]

Hello philwick,

thanks for the information.
Good to see this is already on the "to do" list.....

[Igor]

Sometimes when I am playing and/or editing diff modules (no matter if in rack or patch mode) it happens that the Origin "freezes" (not hanging), means no sound is coming out of any of the Outs (Master and AUX outs). I can still step through the menues etc. but there is no sound at all. I have to switch off the machine and turn it on again. This seems to be a bug.

1) I have absolutely same problem. Thanks God I'm not alone (hallo, Infiltrator), and thank you, philwick, for a good news this "feature" will be fixed soon. Will wait for an OS update, hopefully soon. Device is not so cheap, you know.

2) Also sometimes (seems mostly in Multy presets) high pitched [digital] click sounds appears with a key pressed (I guess with chords). Sounds like then DAW is out of buffer etc.

[Infiltrator]

Hello Igor,


since I posted here I didn't experience that problem anymore.
The tip from philwick to press Panic before editing works fine.
Still I'd like to see it fixed with the next OS.
Haven't experienced your second problem.
 

[Igor]

since I posted here I didn't experience that problem anymore.
The tip from philwick to press Panic before editing works fine.
...
Haven't experienced your second problem

Lucky you are. I got a Origin "freezing" twice already (seems it comes then you're use Origin in a poly mode intensively).

Pressing panic do not works for me. Changed 3 different midi keyboards already (now playing thru my Prophet '08 as a midi keyb, funny, heh?). But: if Panic button helps that mean the problem comes from incoming midi stream?

Clicks are (sometimes!) in "FerretKing" multy, try fast chords in Tomita style, for instance (hope you're out of a problem here).

[Philippe]

2) Also sometimes (seems mostly in Multy presets) high pitched [digital] click sounds appears with a key pressed (I guess with chords). Sounds like then DAW is out of buffer etc.

This may happen - in MULTI mode  - when the DSP "OS" has to kill a voice assigned to some slot to assign this voice to a different slot. That mechanism is maybe better known as "voice stealing". This "voice stealing" may occur either because memory (buffers...) resources are missing for a new voice, or because CPU time is missing for this new voice. As far as Origin is concerned, the reason to steal a voice is most of the time a consequence of a lack of CPU and rarely a lack of memory resources.

I've already started to evaluate different solutions to optmize the CPU needed to compute voices. This work is still though at a preliminary stage and will not be included in next revision (1.1) and likely not also in the following 1.5 revision. We've yet not planned anything ahead of 1.5 revision. It may be then that an optimized DSP code is part of a 2.0 revision.

[Igor]

This may happen ... "voice stealing"...lack of CPU ...memory resources.

Now it is clear, thanx. But I'm again, sorry: clicks comes from your original presets, and where are no any warnings like "don't press more then x keys" or "do not play so fast" :-) Clicks are clearly audible and makes a perfomance (if any) poor.

This work [optimizing] is still though at a preliminary stage and will not be included in next revision (1.1) and likely not also in the following 1.5 revision. We've yet not planned anything ahead of 1.5 revision. It may be then that an optimized DSP code is part of a 2.0 revision.

Thank you. It's strange you're "yet not planned" to take into account and fix it. Maybe, it is possible to eliminate just clicks not "voice stealing"?

[Philippe]

It's strange you're "yet not planned" to take into account and fix it

Well, my answer was not very clear. What I meant is that we didn't yet decide what would be the roadmap for version 2.X revisions. Among the functionalities we want to add to V2.x is a better polyphony (which would largely contribute to eliminate the clicks), a VST/AU plug-in for Origin, an additional template (likely the ARP2600)... Which is not yet decided is if we'll provide a single 2.0 version containing all this, or a V2.0 followed by a V2.1 ...

Maybe, it is possible to eliminate just clicks not "voice stealing"?

Yes and no... I tried to implement a "click killing" but for technical reasons it's not easy and I hadn't the time to make it work for V1.0.7 nor to include it in the V1.1 revision. I'll see if I can make it work for the V1.5. Anyway, this would be a complement to the increase of polyphony.

[Igor]

...answer was not very clear... Among the functionalities we want to add to V2.x is a better polyphony... a VST/AU plug-in... an additional template ...

Getting clear now, thanx. I'm deeply impressed by the list/roadmap (better polyphony/Plug-in/Templates are key point for today - that's why I (and most of us I suppose) have bought it. No, better to say: I got and accepted your roadmap. I have invested to Arturia with Origin.

So, don't want to take your time more - go and work hard on OUR Origin to make it 100% useful in studio, with DAW, on scene. Unit is great. You're great :-)

...not yet decided is if we'll provide a single 2.0 version containing all this, or a V2.0 followed by a V2.1

Hmm.. It doesn't matter how you'll provide it. Follow roadmap/keep a promises. Just be in time please.

...I tried to implement a "click killing" but for technical reasons it's not easy and I hadn't the time... this would be a complement to the increase of polyphony

O.K. it will be great to get a kind of pre-solution before complete solution will come, ready to test 1.0x is you wish, for free :-) But (especially due time shortage) have a care to don't break things that works.

[indionat]

Hi,
my Origin had the Problem, that i had to switch it on more than once, because the display was freezing, since today it is only showing coloured stripes and a grey background.
Is there a reset or so to do?
Markus

[Antoine]

@indionat
If any such problem with your machine, just get back to your vendor for a warranty exchange. Unit will be sent back to our facility for deeper inspection.

By the way, I just removed your 2 other identical messages from these threads, to avoid cross-posting:
http://www.arturia.com/evolution/smf/index.php?topic=2893.msg9856#msg9856
http://www.arturia.com/evolution/smf/index.php?topic=2840.msg9854#msg9854

[synthguy99]

2) Also sometimes (seems mostly in Multy presets) high pitched [digital] click sounds appears with a key pressed (I guess with chords). Sounds like then DAW is out of buffer etc.

This may happen - in MULTI mode  - when the DSP "OS" has to kill a voice assigned to some slot to assign this voice to a different slot. That mechanism is maybe better known as "voice stealing". This "voice stealing" may occur either because memory (buffers...) resources are missing for a new voice, or because CPU time is missing for this new voice. As far as Origin is concerned, the reason to steal a voice is most of the time a consequence of a lack of CPU and rarely a lack of memory resources.

I've already started to evaluate different solutions to optmize the CPU needed to compute voices. This work is still though at a preliminary stage and will not be included in next revision (1.1) and likely not also in the following 1.5 revision. We've yet not planned anything ahead of 1.5 revision. It may be then that an optimized DSP code is part of a 2.0 revision.

Jeepers... I'm not sure when my Origin was made, I expect within the last few months, but I'm having the same issue with both modes, including Patch mode.  I'll be playing along, and suddenly the Origin will lock up, and Panic won't unfreeze it.  And darn, from the way this is sounding, OS 2.0 is still a ways off.  It's a little more stable with 1.1.59, but just a bit.

I guess I have a few questions, because I don't want to give this thing up, even though I have several synths on hand.

• What's the typical polyphony of the preset Multis?  I experience polyphony on some of as few as two notes.
• What about the average patch?  It seems that many of them have something like 9 or 10 notes available.  (edit:  looking patches over, many of even simple ones only have 6 voices, even with TAE turned down!  Why??  Because they're used in big multis?)
• Someone mentioned adjusting the TAE parameter.  Does this make a module more efficient/less authentic, but lighter on CPU resources?  I'm still slogging through the manual and have a LOT to learn. 
• I know the Origin osc and filter are the aliasing stepchildren, but are these the things to use for patches I want to make really complex?

It is a testament to how awesome the TAE synth engine is that I could send this back and get a Kurzweil PC3, but I just can't let go of this thing.  And I know that begging won't speed things up, but if you could get a pretty much bulletproof OS 2.0 running this year, I'd be a seriously happy camper.

Anyway, thanks for your time, and the Origin sale.

[hblu2002]

I am a new origin owner -- received it yesterday courtesy of sweetwater.  as all of you know the sound is incredible and i am loving it.  i also experienced the freezing -- switching to multi while playing a sound.  i will try the panic button workaround from now on.

my question is this: is arturia commited to continuing development for this amazing synth -- ie, get us to firmware 2.0 (over time)  to get the stability that we need -- i would love to hear from one of the developers.  Thanks again!

Howie

[Niccolo]

SynthGuy:
- Polyphony: there is no rule to know the polyphony of a multi, since it may vary from a lot of notes with light patches in a split configuration, down to 2 or 3 notes if you layer 4 very heavy programs. For single, average patches, you should have, as you say, from 8 to 20 voices, according to what you call an average patch!
 - TAE: the TAE amount is a parameter that should make patches sound more analog. The more TAE amount there is, the more analog the sound is. It does not affect the CPU or the polyphony at all. However, we have been reported some issues by some users (unwanted harmonics and some aliasing) on certain patches when using big TAE amounts, so, until the bug is corrected, I suggest to use low TAE amounts (use only the first half of the knob)
 - About the manual: be careful when you read it, because it is quite outdated. We are currently updating it, and the new version will be available soon (maybe with a glossary
 - Stability: we already corrected some stability bugs in the 1.2 version that will be released soon. We are currently working on our _last_ big stability issue (edition of patches after playing in a multi). It will maybe available in the 1.2, or maybe in the next version. Just to say that we are working hard on stability, and that the next version(s) will solve these problems.

Howie:
As a developer on Origin, I can assure you that we are going to keep working on the Origin firmware for a while, and we are trying to address the stability issue with the highest priority. Now we still need to release the promised templates (JP8, CS, ...), but even when they will be released, I don't think developments will be stopped if some serious bugs remain.