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Author Topic: guitar hex pickup mpe Pigments 3  (Read 3845 times)

rcrath

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guitar hex pickup mpe Pigments 3
« on: July 07, 2021, 05:43:53 am »
Win 10, patched up to date, plogue bidule is host, Pigments 3 up to date.

I am trying to setup mpe for pigments on my guitar synth setup, which is a hexaphonic pickup output through and Axon AX50 pitch tpo MIDI processor.  I have it partially working.  the hex pickup is able to send notes from each string on its own channel (eg, standard guitar tuning, High e=ch1, b=ch2, g=ch3, d=ch4, a=ch5, low E =ch6.  so any notes played on the D string for example, will go to channel 3.  Since I have literally hundreds of plugin presets that depend on this, I used the high zone so that global messages go through Ch. 16 instead of Ch1.  The notes work fine, with individual pitch bend for each string. 

My pitch-midi converter, an Axon Ax50, has a cool feature where you can map the location of your picking to a CC, so picking near the neck sends a low value, and as you move picking toward the bridge, it goes to high values. I have this set to CC1, so my pick hand is the mod wheel. The pickup sends CC1 separately for each string, as with the notes. I monitored remapped CC1 to CC74, and checked what is going into Pigments, which is six channels of independent CC74 values.  In pigments,  my MPE settings in the first settings tab are as follows: Enabled, Upper zone, 6 Channels, 48 semitones PB, slide mode is absolute, Slide CC is CC74. I want a simple mpe control of wavefolding amount, but do not see anywhere on the controller bar where there is a CC74 available. 

 So under MIDI settings, I changed the manual configuration of CC 74 from "filter freq" to "fold."  The MIDI settings tab manual mapping only allows setting 1 Channel at a time, though.  And that channel does not produce anything even though CC 74 values are going into pigments midi in for each channel.  One odd thing is that the master volume setting (CC7) in midi settings tab just changes the channel as it receives volume changes. So the Master Volume is getting per-string volume CC7s.  The Fold amount on Wavetable 1 showed red to indicate it was connected to something. The only thing connected is CC 74 on Channel n, where n = one of 1-6 in the manual MIDI setup.  But when I played, sending six channels of CC 74 into pigments, the fold amount remained still, even when I sent CC74 on the correct channel as per the midi setup tab. 

I then tried changing the slide value to CC 1 and removing the remapper in my host so it sent CC1 into Pigments instead of CC 74. Unless I missed something, this should have worked according to what
LBH said, namely: "Roli Slide = A midi CC modulator. The set MIDI CC is in generel Midi used for Filter Cutoff.
If you set it to Midi CC#01, then it wheel control the Modwheel. - In pigments You can see the Modwheel modulator in the center modulator strip named MW."
  Again, a MIDI monitor in my host showed the right data going into Pigments for CC1 on all six channels, but the modwheel indicator in the Source modulator bar did not show any change, just a flat line.  I tried hooking the ModWheel in the source bar up to the Wavetable 1 Fold amount, but the MW in the sources bar remained flatlined when I sent CC1 from my guitar synth. In contrast, if I moved the Pigments internal GUI mod wheel, the wavetable fold moved fine. 

Incidentally, when not in MPE on my controller, and all CC's, Notes, PBs are coming over channel 1, the MW source flatlined then, but I could use my host instead of Pigments to Map CC1 on channel 1 to the MW Source in the modulator source bar and everything it modulated worked fine, just in MIDI Ch1 only  rather than MPE. 

So somehow, one CC is getting through from my controller as MPE, (CC7), but neither CC74 nor CC1 is getting picked up by pigments at all, even though it is going in to pigments in the correct way.

Any help sorting this out is greatly appreciated.Thanks in advance.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 06:01:57 am by rcrath »

rcrath

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Re: guitar hex pickup mpe Pigments 3
« Reply #1 on: July 07, 2021, 06:14:29 am »
ok, progress. Returned to the manual and found the section on MPE slide where it says this goes to Macro 1. That was almost literally the "missing link." When I assigned filter cutoff to macro 1, it worked in full MPE glory, but still nothing when the Macro 1 source is linked to "Wavetable 1 Fold".  Do only some params respond to MPE?

5 minutes later, aaaargh, now the macro source does not see the cc 1 messages again.  slide cc is set to 1, MPE enabled, and the right data is going in as far as I can tell.
« Last Edit: July 07, 2021, 06:25:58 am by rcrath »

LBH

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Re: guitar hex pickup mpe Pigments 3
« Reply #2 on: July 07, 2021, 05:57:48 pm »
Hi,

I don't think it's a good idea to take quotes from other threads - at least without posting a link for the thread.

I don't think i've said, that Slide on Pigments will work using midi CC 01.
In Pigments Midi CC 01 is a reserved parameter, like it is in all Pigments applications. It control the Modwheel and normally it can't be assigned to other controls. I don't know if this is the case, when in MPE mode, but if so (and it may be so), then i think Arturia should leave out the Reserved Midi CC in the Slide CC selector.
There are other midi CCs that's reserved in Pigments.
I can only suggest you ask Arturia support about this.

In Pigments, then when you assign a Midi CC as Slide CC, then it - as i understand it - will control whatever Macro 1 is set to control. So it's what happening for Macro 1, you shall look at.

Using midi CC74 for Slide CC like you mention, should work to control Macro 1, like described above. Actually Midi CC74 is the Default setting for Slide CC in Pigments.
Also i assume, that if you have a control on your controller set to Midi CC01, then it should control the Modwheel in Pigments. And if so, then i doubt Midi CC01 can be used as Slide CC as as it's reserved like mentioned above.

If midi CC74 does'nt work as Slide CC, then i suggest you contact Arturia support.
I don't use MPE. I can't test.

rcrath

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Re: guitar hex pickup mpe Pigments 3
« Reply #3 on: July 07, 2021, 09:49:22 pm »
Hi @LBH, there is a link to the thread.  it is the highlighted part at the top that says "Quote from: LBH on April 29, 2020, 08:31:41 pm" and I cut and pasted the relevant part from your response I belive. It is a long thread on a related but older and different topic, but was all I could find about the actual midi routing in Pigments. It would have been distracting to paste the whole thing in, and just a link would mean fishing through the thread without knowing which part I was talking about.  Sorry if that comes across as out of context to you, but it was all I could find and I presented it to show that I at least searched the forum (I also searched a lot of other things).  I suppose I should have included your similar statement about the Y value (slider) on CC74 too.

I tried CC1 and it did not work, I think for the reasons you state in this post. CC 74 seems the way to go, and I have my setup sending CC74 into pigments. Macro one's visual saw it, and the macro worked, for about five minutes, then stopped recognizing the CC 74 I put in.  The hardware and host are still sending the right data in according to the midi monitor I have placed right before pigments , so the problem is with pigments I'm pretty sure, probably some switch I forgot or something,  I'll contact support.  Like I came here having read up first, I wanted to make sure there was not a user community answer that solved it first. 

Anyway, sorry if I offended you by using the linked copy-pasta quotation, and the research I've done (RTFM for me!) since led me to the same conclusion as you RE CC1.  Now to get it to see cc 74 again! Thanks for your reply,.

LBH

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Re: guitar hex pickup mpe Pigments 3
« Reply #4 on: July 08, 2021, 12:04:40 am »
Hi rcrath.

Your right about the link for the quote. I overlooked that.
I talk about the controls on a Roli controller in that quote, taking from Roli's website.

Are you saying that, if you have a control set to midi CC01 on your controller, then you don't control Pigments modwheel? (I'm not talking about you set the Slide CC to midi CC01 here.)
I would believe you should be able to control the modwheel using midi CC01 (Modwheel standard cc), as long as it's not by setting the Slide CC to midi CC01. If not, then i would contact Arturia support, if i was you.

In generel i would not use the generel midi CC  like for Modwheel, Volume, Expression for Slide CC, as they are modulators of their own. Also i would not use the midi CCs for Sustain pedal, Sustenouto pedal or Soft pedal and so on, as they also are used by standard in many applications for excact those controls.
Here is a link for a midi chart: https://www.midi.org/forms/midi_chart-v2.pdf

Midi CC74 is in generel midi used for filter cutoff/ Brightness, and it make sense to use that for Slide CC. Just keep this from the Pigment 3 manual in mind:
"Slide CC: - Select the MIDI CC number used to send the slide information. By default, this is 74 but you can change it. Note that when MPE is enabled, all the controls that listen to the selected CC will no longer receive it."
In Pigments 3 midi CC74 by default is assigned to F1 cutoff. So that will as i understand it not work, if you use midi CC74 as Slide CC.
« Last Edit: July 08, 2021, 12:22:04 am by LBH »

Mutamycete

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Re: guitar hex pickup mpe Pigments 3
« Reply #5 on: August 25, 2022, 03:01:35 pm »
Hi, did you get something in the end?

 

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