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Author Topic: Macro Knobs  (Read 3389 times)

aWc

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Macro Knobs
« on: May 19, 2018, 11:23:10 pm »
In general, I find the MB's user interface very good: knob placement, left to right workflow, etc. However, one thing really bothers me: the Macro Knobs! Potentially a great idea, but the way the're implemented makes them almost useless(to me at least). Since they are bipolar  but with no center detent, it is impossible to tweak them and return them to center without looking at the display...and even then it takes a second or two. Moreover, since the modulation destinations already have a bipolar control and make you choose with direction you want to modulate, why override this with the Macro Knobs?

Suggestion: change the behaviour of the knobs (in firmware):
1.make them unipolar.
2. rotation clockwise acts normally
3. rotation couterclockwise (of for example 1/4 turn or more) bring you back to zero

I can't find any other solution short of physically changing the pots to center detent ones (no way...). Anybody feels the same? Other ideas?

DrJustice

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Re: Macro Knobs
« Reply #1 on: May 20, 2018, 12:52:08 am »
I don't think the macro knob functionality can be changed - it would break almost every patch.

However, you can achieve unipolar-like functionality. If you turn a macro knob fully ccw to -99, then you make the mod matrix assignment and set a mod amount and bias the parameter you're modulating so that it's at your zero position, then you have a unipolar macro knob.

E.g. from an init patch: enable both VCO 1 and 2, tune VCO 2 one octave up using the coarse tune, set M4 to -99, assign M4 to VCO 2 pitch, set the mod amount to, 31'ish and fine tune the mod amount to match the VCO 1 pitch by ear. Save the patch - the current macro knob values are saved, just like all other parameters.

Et voilą, you have a unipolar, upwards only macro control for VCO 2. It will go to 1 octaves up at macro position 0 and to 2 octaves up at macro position +99 with this specific bias and mod amount, And you can have both unipolar and bipolar macros in the same patch. If you tune VCO 2 6 semi tones sharp and use a mod amount of 22'ish, you get a range of 1 octave. To get a downwards pitch sweep instead, just change the signs on the bias and the macro knob (or the mod amount).

It requires the biasing of the parameter(s) and the fine tuning of the mod amount, but it does what you want without changing any functionality.

Now let's go one step further:

From an init patch: enable both VCO 1 and 2, set M4 to -99, assign M4 to VCO 2 pitch, set the mod amount to 31'ish  and fine tune the mod amount to match the VCO 1 pitch by ear, set M3 to +99, assign M3 to VCO 2 pitch, set the mod amount to 31'ish and fine tune again to match the VCO 1 pitch.

You now have a patch where M4 tunes VCO 2 upwards up to 2 octaves in a unipolar fashion, M3 tunes it down up to 2 octaves in a unipolar fashion, and you can always land on zero with no problem. Again, using a mod amount of 22'ish, you get a range of 1 octave, both up and down.


P.S. To find the a specific range is a bit of a black art ATM, at least for precise pitch control. I haven't found a method for determining the mod amount value for hitting precise intervals for the range of a macro knob yet. It's too late on a Saturday night to figure out why a mod amount of  22 gives 1 octave and 31 gives 2 octaves... Perhaps Arturia can give us the formula at work? It may not be so critical for other parameters than pitch control though.

P.P.S. I just found that for the one macro knob method of controlling pitch, a bias of one and a half octave and a mod value of 38'ish give you 4 octaves range (thus 38 should give +/- 4 octaves for the twin macro knob method). We have 3 datapoints now - I'm sure the logarithm at work for the mod amount can derived from these experiments, but not by me on this Saturday night after a few beers - again, I'd prefer if Arturia enlightened us :D

P.P.P.S. Anyway, the unipolar macro method by biasing is easy enough to understand without complicating it with the precise tuning values - I just used pitch for these examples because it's easy to hear both absolute and relative values...
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 02:34:20 am by DrJustice »

aWc

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Re: Macro Knobs
« Reply #2 on: May 20, 2018, 07:39:44 pm »
great tips, thanks! I had to read through it a few times...but I get it now. I still think that bipolar mode is not very usable...feel free to prove me otherwise (wouldn't be the first time...ah ah)

DrJustice

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Re: Macro Knobs
« Reply #3 on: May 20, 2018, 09:21:59 pm »
Heh... well, I don't think it that the usefulness can be proven as such. For what it's worth, I use bipolar macros in practically every patch I make, and I enjoy tweaking bipolar macros in the factory and downloaded presets. But hey - as you can see, we can actually have both if we program them with a little finesse. There are a few programming 'secrets' like this on the MxB, due to its flexibility :)

Edit: 'Secrets' like: modulator feedback to get log/exp envelope segments, double mod assignments to get greater range and this little unipolar macro trick
« Last Edit: May 20, 2018, 09:25:58 pm by DrJustice »

Alexandrejoe

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Re: Macro Knobs
« Reply #4 on: May 22, 2018, 11:11:33 am »
Another tip is that you can go back to the 0-value of macro knobs (and master cutoff knob) by pressing [Panel] button + turning the knob to be forced to 0.

Lunatic Sound

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Re: Macro Knobs
« Reply #5 on: June 19, 2018, 08:07:39 pm »
Reading your guys' forum posts is honey for my brain.

Processaurus

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Re: Macro Knobs
« Reply #6 on: November 29, 2018, 07:09:15 am »
What if the Macro encoders stopped changing value, when you crossed zero? What I mean is, if you wanted to go past zero, you have to stop turning, then start turning again.  That way, if you want the macro to be zero, you just give it a hard turn towards zero, and it is off.  Not this fiddly, painstaking thing of trying to gingerly find 0.  Many more people would like to find 0 quickly, than people that would want a perfectly smooth transition, from positive to negative modulation.

standingwave

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Re: Macro Knobs
« Reply #7 on: November 29, 2018, 11:14:00 am »
As was already mentioned, if you don't mind a jump, hold panel and turn the knob. It will reset to  zero.

DrJustice

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Re: Macro Knobs
« Reply #8 on: November 29, 2018, 11:42:04 am »
What if the Macro encoders stopped changing value, when you crossed zero? What I mean is, if you wanted to go past zero, you have to stop turning, then start turning again.  That way, if you want the macro to be zero, you just give it a hard turn towards zero, and it is off.  Not this fiddly, painstaking thing of trying to gingerly find 0.  Many more people would like to find 0 quickly, than people that would want a perfectly smooth transition, from positive to negative modulation.
I don't think the default behaviour should be changed since it will "break" patches. However, if we ever get the ability to edit extended parameters (discussion here), I'd vote for a feature to select bipolar or unipolar operation individually per macro knob.

 

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