Issues with Panel mode and Clearing SEQ.

[endreola]

Greetings,

I am new to the forum.  Did a quick search but didn't find a similar thread.  Am eager to learn if the MB is defective or it's a SW issue, or the person operating it .

1) Playing a patch while in non Panel mode seems to work fine.  However, the sound volume is drastically reduced after switching to Panel mode. Yes, I had double-checked VCO volume, Mixer volume, VCA & ENVs and Effects settings.  Sound is so faint it's barely audible, even after cracking Master Vol to max.

2) After clearing a SEQ (using combo buttons Panel+SEQ ) that VCO1 stops generating sound.  Have to power cycle the synth to get VCO1 back online.

3) If the patch is saved right after clearing SEQ then the sound for that patch is also inaudible even after power cycle.

The MB is brand new and the first thing after unboxing was upgrade to v1.1.0.73.

Regards,
Dean

[DrJustice]

First, congrats on the MxB!

1 and 2 should not happen. I've tested here and it all works as it should.

For point 3, make sure that the "Sequencer" button is off. If you do save a patch with an empty sequence and "Sequencer" set to on, then you'll not get any sound. This actually caught me out right now when I tested it, as I had forgotten to switch off the sequencer

The "standard advice" is to reinstall the latest firmware - it has been known to clear up issues that would make you think something is defective.

[endreola]

Hello DrJustice,

Thank you for the quick response and confirmation.

Firmware and board versions all appear up to date.  Versions listed below:

Voice: 1.0.9.7
Main: 1.0.7.3
Analog: 1.0.6.9
Filter: 1.0.6.9
Matrix: 1.0.6.9
Audio Mod: 1.0.6.9
LFO: 1.0.6.9
KBD: 1.0.6.9
FXs: 1.0.6.9

A support ticket was opened and got escalated to level 2.  Hopefully will have more details soon.  I've been pretty fortunate over the decades to have good solid functioning product.  Am hoping to add MxB to the list.

Regards,
Dean

[DrJustice]

Did you try a reinstall of the firmware? Also, curious about whether point 3 was the same "gotcha" as I experienced, or if it's a persistent fault?

Edit: Where do you see those individual version numbers?

Hope you'll get it sorted quickly!

[endreola]

Yea, I sure did try reinstalling firmware - it was the first thing I tried but it didn't provide any noticeable difference. 
Had also thought about resetting MxB back to factory default settings but wasn't successful finding the details on this forum or Google on how to do that.  And to be completely honest, am not even sure the MxB supports such a thing..

It doesn't appear that I'm making any more headway with getting this resolved.
EDIT: However, you are spot on.  It does have something to do with the Sequencer module.  Did a little more research and it appears when the Sequencer module is on, (button is lit), and you attempt to clear a sequence pattern (Panel+SEQ), not only does it clear out the sequence pattern but it also cuts off the board sound.  Sound generation is not affected if (Panel+SEQ) is performed while Sequencer module is OFF.  The only way I know to get the sound back on is to power-cycle.  This is a very repeatable condition and would have to say it sounds like a huge bug.

Am curious to know, if you compare the sound levels between a patch and Panel mode, is the volume in Panel mode lower?  It's about half the volume of the patch.  I will reconfirm by building a new patch and toggle between it and Panel mode.  Maybe that's normal.  It's no big deal, just a learning / observation point for me.

As to display board-level versions, it's a two-button combo process:  (wonder how many here are going to try this  ).

Within the Sequencer module section, hold the Play button then press one of the following buttons listed below. The board version will be displayed on the Sequencer's digital display. (Note: On the first check, you may need to press it twice to display the board revision).

For example, Play + SEQ Length will display the board version running on Main board.

SEQ Length = Main Board
Patterns = Voice
Straight Note = Analog
Triple Note = Filter
Dotted Note = Matrix
1/4 = Audio Mod
1/8 = LFO
1/16 = KBD Wheels
1/32 = FX's

Also, if one of the boards is not up to date, it can be update manually.  To do that, repeat the operation above but instead of holding the Play button, hold Record plus the corresponding board button.  MxB should then freeze for several seconds, and display FWOK at the end of the process.

Enjoy!

Your assistance is greatly appreciated.

[DrJustice]

Yea, I sure did try reinstalling firmware - it was the first thing I tried but it didn't provide any noticeable difference. 
Had also thought about resetting MxB back to factory default settings but wasn't successful finding the details on this forum or Google on how to do that.  And to be completely honest, am not even sure the MxB supports such a thing..

I don't know about any factory reset either.

It doesn't appear that I'm making any more headway with getting this resolved.
EDIT: However, you are spot on.  It does have something to do with the Sequencer module.  Did a little more research and it appears that when the Sequencer module is on, (button is lit), and you attempt to clear a sequence pattern (Panel+SEQ), not only does it clear out the sequence pattern but it also cuts off the board sound.  Sound generation is not affected if (Panel+SEQ) is performed while Sequencer module is OFF.  The only way I know to get the sound back on is to recycle the power.  This is a very repeatable condition and would have to say it sounds like a huge bug.

If the sound doesn't come back if you simply ensure that Sequencer is off before saving or after loading, then there's definitely something wrong.

Am curious to know, if you compare the sound levels between a patch and Panel mode, is the volume in Panel mode lower?  It's about half the volume of the patch.  I will reconfirm by building a new patch and toggle between it and Panel mode.  Maybe that's normal.  It's no big deal, just a learning / observation point for me.

The volume level is the same. Just confirmed it here again, this time by switching to Panel mode and saving the patch, then loading the patch and toggling Panel mode on and off - no difference in volume.

For what it's worth, apart from the known bugs, my MxB has been behaving very well for a year now.

As to display board-level versions, it's a two-button combo process:  (wonder how many here is going to try this  ).
...

Now I have to ask where you found this info? I'm trying to stay on top of all things MxB, but I've not come across any mention of that feature yet.

BTW, the display scrolls here, to show a four part w.x.y.z format version number. Here are mine (same versions as you it seems, apart from the exact format):

Main Board: 1.1.0.73
Voice: 1.1.0.97
Analog: 1.1.0.69
FiIter: 1.1.0.69
Matrix: 1.1.0.69
Audio mod: 1.1.0.69
LFO: 1.1.0.69
KBD Wheels: 1.1.0.69
FX: 1.1.0.69

Have you got any other MxB secrets like that? 

[endreola]

The button codes were provided by Arturia support.  That's all I have up my sleeves, for now.

[Vic-tor]

Hi !

If "Sequencer" is lit; and no step is active in the sequence, then playing a note with have no effect on the MatrixBrute voice.

The envelope are triggered (aka the note is played) ONLY if the current step is on. As clearing the sequence removes all existing steps, it requires to add steps either by hand or by recording from the keyboard.

This might clarify the issues you were having. If not let us know !

Regarding the panel mode volume, I'd say also double check the Mod Matrix if there is some strange routing there, as well as the Voice mode; and mod weel/macro assignations. Velo/Vca is one to check as well.

Hope this can help !

Victor

[endreola]

If "Sequencer" is lit; and no step is active in the sequence, then playing a note with have no effect on the MatrixBrute voice.
The envelope are triggered (aka the note is played) ONLY if the current step is on. As clearing the sequence removes all existing steps, it requires to add steps either by hand or by recording from the keyboard.

My thinking was if a key was pressed it would still trigger the envelope regardless of the Sequencer's run-state.  It didn't dawn on me the lack of active steps would be the cause.  That makes sense.  Will need to test that workflow and confirm back.

Your comments are greatly appreciated.

[DrJustice]

^ Heh... I tried to explain that twice, complete with anecdote of how it can catch you out:  Empty sequence and sequencer on =  no sound. Hmm... maybe I need to work on my wording 

[endreola]

Please don't take it personally, sometimes it takes a few more times before it sinks in.  I appreciate your persistence

[DrJustice]

No problem. English is not my first language, so I don't always know how well I word things.

The point made by Victor about the matrix confusing things between panel and non panel mode is a good one for point 1 in the OP. The mod matrix settings in the patch get cleared when panel mode is selected and then the last settings you had for the mod matrix when in panel mode are applied. These "panel mod matrix settings" persists across power cycles. This is a nice feature whereby the mod matrix can be seen to behave like physical knobs, but it can also catch you out if you don't know about it - it took me some testing to uncover the workings of this feature.

Have you gotten any further solving things?

On a sidenote, the new Minibrutes have extensive and excellent manuals of 150 pages or so, while the much more advanced MatrixBrute flagship has a very minimal manual of 54 pages. As we have seen several times around the fora, not everything is obvious and the lack of documentation has caused a few problems and headscratchers, sometimes leading people to believe there is something wrong with their MxB or the FW in general. As it is, we, the users, have to uncover the exact workings of the MatrixBrute by experimentation. The MatrixBrute could do with a more complete manual.

[endreola]

I am certainly impressed with your English writing skills.

After all the reading, videos and assistance received thus far, I am pretty sure the MxB is functioning as designed and would have to say the issue was the person in between the chair and MxB. 

There's a learning curve involved here and to your point the manual isn't very clear, well that's another issue in itself.  The little things are easy to pick up on, for example, "Memory Protection switch, when Off prevents overwriting" or describing combo button press steps in reverse order.  Like that old expresssion, you don't know what you don't know, and take for granted that user manuals are written with precision.

You've been very helpful with your knowledge and time of which does not go unnoticed.

[DrJustice]

The point made by Victor about the matrix confusing things between panel and non panel mode is a good one for point 1 in the OP. The mod matrix settings in the patch get cleared when panel mode is selected and then the last settings you had for the mod matrix when in panel mode are applied. These "panel mod matrix settings" persists across power cycles. This is a nice feature whereby the mod matrix can be seen to behave like physical knobs, but it can also catch you out if you don't know about it - it took me some testing to uncover the workings of this feature.

I tested the above mechanism some more and found the following:

 - If you're in the MOD matrix mode AND there are no "panel mod matrix settings" AND you engage Panel mode, then the currently selected (if any) MOD matrix button gets copied to the "panel mod matrix settings".

 - A MOD matrix point copied to the "panel mod matrix settings" in this manner is not persistent, i.e. it's lost on a patch change or power cycle.

 - Whenever the MOD matrix is engaged, the first of any enabled buttons (first row/colum) will automatically be selected.

 - If you enter Panel mode when there are no enabled MOD matrix buttons, none will be copied across, but if you toggle Panel mode off and on again, then the first enabled MOD matrix button will be selected and thus copied to the "panel mod matrix settings", i.e. toggling Panel off and on has the effect of re-engaging the MOD matrix.


This behaviour is rather arcane and takes much experimenting to uncover fully together with the quoted persistent "panel mod matrix settings" mechanism. I'm not sure if this is a bug, or just the most cryptic of UI features. I don't think users can be expected to grasp all the different sequences of events and the resulting states happening there - especially when there's no documentation for this.

If someone from Arturia would care to comment on the discoveries made after the quoted mechanism, I'll decide if I'll file it as a bug or not. If it's "by design" (too contrived design!) then it should be explained properly in the manual.