(SOLVED) BSP 2.0 update and Logic X stutter issue [semi-solved]

[Ululu]

Hi there,

I was excited to upgrade my BSP to the newest version, so first off big thanks to the Arturia team for all the effort you've put into this update - the new features are great!

I'm having basically an issue when using the BSP in Logic (everything works fine in Ableton).
Basically, I had the BSP setup in Logic as per the instructions by Arturia and all was working well before the upgrade. So same setup, but with the new firmware I'm experiencing the following:

- Every time I stop and restart the playback in Logic, the BSP starts stuttering and repeats only the first 1/4 note on a loop. Sometimes when I press and hold down shift the playback resumes. Or sometimes when I flick between different sequencers the playback resumes. Now the solution seems to be random because sometimes neither of the above described "tricks" seems to resume playback and sit there just wait and after 2-3 minutes it's good.

And also, Sequencer 2 doesn't work in Logic now but it works in Ableton. 


Would you guys be able to help?
Am I the only one with this issue?

Thanks a lot!

Update:
I downgraded to v 1.4 and everything is working properly in Logic now. I hope you guys will release a hotfix sometime soon, would love to be able to use the polyrhythm feature.

Update 2:
Tried doing a hard reset but I still get the same issue. So I've downgraded again to v 1.4.

[Valentin Arturia]

Hi Ululu,

Are you using Logic Pro X or Logic X ? Which version ?
Have you check the different synchronisation options ? Which one do you use ? In Logic pro X you 3 different Song synchronisation types and 1 pattern synchronisation type.
What is also your Play/Stop settings (right click on the Play/Stop button).

Best
Valentin

Edit : I forget to say it works great on my side using Logic Pro X 10.3.1

[Ululu]

Hi Valentin,

Thanks for your feedback. I'm running Logic Pro X version 10.3.1.

I played around with the different Song sync setting but the issue still persisted. However, I have just now ticked as "off" the Listen MCC  input in the sync setting and its working alright now.

I mean I'm happy, but should I have this ticked "on"? What does it do anyway - I just ticked it on when following the Logic and BSP setup instructions?

Thanks!


Edit:
Now the Mackie Control doesn't seem to work. When I stop playback I get a loud feedback from one of my synths that's on channel 1. I'm still experimenting with things, please let me know if you have any other suggestions. Thanks again!


Edit 2:
I also made a short video to show what's happening. (some abstract music )
https://vimeo.com/223753887

[karsten]

This is an old problem that was somewhat fixed with 1.4.0.20 and reoccurred with 2.0.0.2. In 2.0.0.2 and some older firmware versions if externally synced BSP reacts to an incoming MMC start by sending itself some MMC commands. The reflected MMC commands will then be processed by Logic stopping and starting playback. The result is a MMC feedback loop which leads to your problem.
In 1.4.0.20 this problem was fixed by generally not sending MMC if externally synced. The downside was that the transport buttons didn't work. To my mind it should be fairly simple to solve this problem by not reflecting MMC oder MIDI Clock to the same port (USB or MIDI) from where they originate. The Beatstep (not Pro) does it this way. I have addressed this in a ticket when I discovered it for the first time but the proper solution seems to be impossible in BSP. My solution was to downgrade to 1.4.0.20 again.

Regards,
Karsten

[Ululu]

Thanks Karsten for the explanation.
That indeed makes sense. I've downgraded to 1.4 too and my unit is pretty stable this way. I'd love to use the polyrhythm feature so I hope that a hotfix of sorts will be released sometime soon.

[I grec]

Hi guys,
This is not a bug. From my point of vue, there is nothing to fix.
There is nothing "reflected" concerning MMC commands in BSP side as BSP does not take MMC into account as input messages. I repeat: BeatStep Pro IGNORES MMC inputs.
When BSP is started manually or by an incoming clock, then it may send an MMC, regarding the transport buttons settings.

This is an old problem that was somewhat fixed with 1.4.0.20 and reoccurred with 2.0.0.2. In 2.0.0.2 and some older firmware versions if externally synced BSP reacts to an incoming MMC start by sending itself some MMC commands

That was true only in USB. And it was done only because of mass USB MIDI messages causing a buffer to overflow. Now that the buffer overflow as been corrected, the normal feature is back.

To my mind it should be fairly simple to solve this problem by not reflecting MMC oder MIDI Clock to the same port (USB or MIDI) from where they originate.

MMC is not reflected but MIDI clock is, that's true. Some users like to daisy chain devices in MIDI. In USB this is less obvious but it is possible in Mac OSX, that's why the feature exists.

You should try to disable MMC messages in BSP or in Logic.

Regards,
Y.

[I grec]

Be that as it may, I think it is too bad not performing the firmware upgrade as the firmware is much better with a lot of bug fixes and new functionnalities, and your issue is not a bug and there are workarounds.

[Ululu]

Be that as it may, I think it is too bad not performing the firmware upgrade as the firmware is much better with a lot of bug fixes and new functionnalities, and your issue is not a bug and there are workarounds.

Hi I grec, thanks a lot for your feedback.

I was wondering if you could have a look at this short video I did that shows this issue in action and confirm if its really only some setting that needs to be changed.
https://vimeo.com/223753887

Thanks again!

[I grec]

Hi Ululu,
You should de-activate "Listen to MMC Input" in Logic or set "Transports" option to "Off" or "MIDI" in Arturia MCC. There seems to be a MIDI loopback in your video.

This is what is happening (if Logic is set to not send MMC, as it does not interfere in what happens):

• Logic sends a Song Position Pointer at 0
• Logic sends a "MIDI Continue (FB)"
• BSP receive it and echo this "Continue"
• If it is set to send MMC, BSP sends MCC Play
• Logic receive the "MMC Play" so it sends:
• a "MIDI Stop(FC)"
• a Song Position Pointer at 0
• a "MIDI Start(FA)"
• As BSP receives a "MIDI Stop", it sends a "MIDI Stop" (Logic seems to ignore it and that is normal because it set as Master Sync)
• BSP sends a "MMC Pause" because with a "MIDI Stop" alone, you don't know if you are paused or stopped. (Logic seems to ignore "MMC Pause" messages and that is strange)
• As BSP receives a SPP 0 + Start, it sends a MMC Stop + MMC Play
• Etc...

I am not sure why, but sometimes Logic sends MIDI Start and sometimes MIDI Continue.
When you push SHIFT button, BSP interpret MIDI Start as if you where pushing SHIFT+ PLAY manually. There is something strange here, but I guess the loopback is broken in some manner this way.
Another thing that is strange, Logic seems to echo Control Changes when receiving them.

Y.

[Ululu]

I seem to have found a solution for the stutter and feedback.

- switch off "listen to MMC" and "Transmit MMC" in the sync settings of Logic.

- in the Midi Control Center change the midi channel of the transport buttons to one that is not being used by any other sequencer. Mine was set channel 1 and sequencer 1 was also running on channel 1. So I've changed the transport button channels to channel 4 and all's good now. No stutter and no feedback. (see attachement).

However, when I try to use the BSP as a Mackie Control unit, the stutter issue comes back. I'm still tinkering, so I hope to find a solution for that too. 

[Ululu]

Hi Ululu,
You should de-activate "Listen to MMC Input" in Logic or set "Transports" option to "Off" or "MIDI" in Arturia MCC. There seems to be a MIDI loopback in your video.

This is what is happening (if Logic is set to not send MMC, as it does not interfere in what happens):

• Logic sends a Song Position Pointer at 0
• Logic sends a "MIDI Continue (FB)"
• BSP receive it and echo this "Continue"
• If it is set to send MMC, BSP sends MCC Play
• Logic receive the "MMC Play" so it sends:
• a "MIDI Stop(FC)"
• a Song Position Pointer at 0
• a "MIDI Start(FA)"
• As BSP receives a "MIDI Stop", it sends a "MIDI Stop" (Logic seems to ignore it and that is normal because it set as Master Sync)
• BSP sends a "MMC Pause" because with a "MIDI Stop" alone, you don't know if you are paused or stopped. (Logic seems to ignore "MMC Pause" messages and that is strange)
• As BSP receives a SPP 0 + Start, it sends a MMC Stop + MMC Play
• Etc...

I am not sure why, but sometimes Logic sends MIDI Start and sometimes MIDI Continue.
When you push SHIFT button, BSP interpret MIDI Start as if you where pushing SHIFT+ PLAY manually. There is something strange here, but I guess the loopback is broken in some manner this way.
Another thing that is strange, Logic seems to echo Control Changes when receiving them.

Y.

Thank you so much I grec!
That explanation makes so much sense. I'm going to try to set the transports to off in MCC instead of changing the channel, maybe that will solve the mackie control thing.
Thanks a lot again for all your help and the work ya'll put into the new features! As I said earlier, I have no problems whatsoever in Ableton. Logic is a bit finicky but once that's sorted it will be a lot of fun to use the BSP there too.

Cheers!

[I grec]

switch off "listen to MMC"

Yes you are right

and "Transmit MMC" in the sync settings of Logic

No it does not change anything

- in the Midi Control Center change the midi channel of the transport buttons to one that is not being used by any other sequencer. Mine was set channel 1 and sequencer 1 was also running on channel 1. So I've changed the transport button channels to channel 4 and all's good now. No stutter and no feedback. (see attachement).

I do not think it is useful with Logic, except if you have routed the BSP control changes to Logic Transport. You could also just change the CC values sent by the BSP or put "Tansports" option to "Off" or "MIDI".

But I think changing just this is enough to remove the loopback:

switch off "listen to MMC"

Y.

[I grec]

You are welcome!

Yes the "Transports" setting should help for the Mackie Control issue.

Y.

[karsten]

Hi I grec,
thanks for the detailed explanation. With this things are much clearer now. I have to admit that I have used the term MMC in a wrong way. I meant the MIDI clock start, stop and continue commands instead.

Regards,
Karsten