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Author Topic: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute  (Read 17540 times)

khidr

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The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« on: January 25, 2017, 12:40:22 pm »
The Limitations of the Matrixbrute (but it's worth the wait)

It almost feels like sacrilege to talk about the limitations of the Matrixbrute. It’s a bit like marrying a beautiful woman and then after two weeks drawing up a list of her faults. Don’t get me wrong I love the Matrixbrute, but somehow we tinkerers always push a new synth to its limits and want to know what those limits are.
So in random order;

The Panel<> Preset gap
When you save a sound you’ve been working on, the Matrixbrute registers the position of all the knobs. Wonderful…it's a big step up from the old days. But when you then select a new preset, the position of the knobs is still that of the previous sound you worked on. It does not give you a clue about the real positions of the knobs that make up this new preset. The « Panel » switch allows you change between the two different states: the sound of the  stored and recalled settings of the preset and the actual sound resulting from the position of the knobs. This makes understanding how  the sound of a loaded preset « works » not easy because the knobs tell a story that does not relate to the sound you are hearing. You’ll have to do a lot a knob tweaking to get all the knobs to reflect the actual sound you’re hearing. In the process of all this knob tweaking you will mosts probably  alter the original preset. As with all bad things in life you can also see this as opportunity to learn about the soul of the MatrixBrute (;-). Still it remains confusing that at anytime you have to deal with these two ‘states’. Maybe experimenting with the three Potmodes (jump/hook/scaled) in the Midi control center will help somewhat to alleviate this confusion.

External control:
External control of the MatrixBrute is possible but rather limited. To take the effects section as an example, you can control the five basic properties of the effect; Delay time, Regeneration, time/rate, Width/Depth and Dry/wet.
But there is no way you can switch the effects unit from Reverb to Delay external using CC# values. You need to push a button on the the MB to achieve that.
This applies to the Effect unit, the filters, the LFOs and the Sequencer. Anything that uses switches to define a  « state » You can change the state of those units externally so you’re stuck with what’s currently active on the Matrixbrute.

Modulation:
My biggest initial disappointment was that there is no way to make circular modulation routes like on the EMS synthi. On the synthi you could feed an oscillator into a filter and then the output of the filter would be available to modulate other things. On the Matrixbrute there are a number of fixed modulation destinations and once you’ve modulated those it’s the end of the line. You can’t make those modulated destinations reenter the Matrix.  I hope it’s clear what i’m saying. It is very hard maybe to understand this concept without having had hands on experience with the EMS synthi.

On the positive side, there is a fantastic modulation option that you only discover after reading the manual very, very  carefully; it is possible to modulate the matrixpoints themselves!! That is mind blowing,  to such extend that at first I did not want it believe it being possible. As if you’ve suddenly landed in a 3d chess game!
What’s it do? Suppose you are using LFO 1 in single trigger mode to add a little upward pitch push every time you trigger it. You can set the intensity of this modulation on Matrixpoint E1. But now! you can define point E1 as an object of modulation in the extra/ configurable rows of the Matrix!!!! Once you done that you can assign any modulation source to modulate your upward pitch push. Another LFO or…. more interesting….. the modulation row of the sequencer!


The Sequencer
The Sequencer of the MB is a great piece of work, but with a bit of extra work it can be made brilliant:
 It would be great if it were possible to split the sequencer in two parts that be used to modulate/play the oscillators or  or modulate other parts of the Matrixbrute.
There is no way to control the length of individual steps in the the sequencer, It makes the sequencer sound rather mechanical, some people might see that as a bonus, i miss a way to step step length. Yes you can link steps and insert muted steps to create a rhythmic feel but it uses up your steps very quickly…..
Most importantly; there is no simple way to modulate  the speed of the sequencer.  It would make so much difference if the Sequences speed could be modulated using an LFO or envelope. It should be available as a modulation destination on the Matrix. It is also not possible to control it externally using CC#s (although a CC# value seems to defined)  The same is true for the the gate time of the steps. (I don’t care much for the swing option)

Another weakness of the sequencer is that it is very hard to change properties of a step while the sequencer is running. It seems the software running the sequencer is so busy advancing the thing to the next step that it does not spend enough time looking whether the user is pressing buttons. You can press buttons all you want but the sequencer does not respond. So if you want to make alterations you better stop the sequencer first, with takes away much of the creative flow.

There’s no way to set the start point of the sequencer….which is a real pity as it would create an enormous amount of extra creative options. We’re all so used to being able to set the start and endpoint of samples and  have learned about how to use them. When applied to a sequencer the results will be even more rewarding musically. Especially is start and end points can be flexible, modulated from the matrix. Imagine being able to shift->right a short 4 step sequence within a 16 step sequence.

The Effects
The effects are of rather limited use, somehow they sound dull and uninteresting.  I think we been spoiled by the clarity of modern digital effects. Not everything in the 80th era was perfect. Effects where an afterthought, were now we begin to see effects as an essential part of the sound. There’s only one effect at the time available. I would have gladly payed an extra for the luxury of having four effect available with a routing construction similar to the filter setup.  I find myself using the effects less and less, i reverted to using the Eventide H9 external effect instead. It maintains the stereo output of the Matrixbrute.
There might be a way to give the effects unit an interesting twist by taking the output of the effects send/return (at the back of the MB) and feed that into the external input. You could then use the output of the effect as an additional sound source. I haven’t been able to try this; you need a special cable to pull this of. I would have preferred stereo send/returns for the left and right channel.


Polyphony
Do I miss polyphony? No..... I bought this machine in the full understanding that it is not. I said « yes"  at the altar and there’s no going back. It inspires me having to focus on creating a single voice, that in itself is complex enough.

In an another posting I suggested a  « simple » way to expand the polyphony of the Matrixbrute by creating a continuously  thread/process in the MatrixBrute OS that samples the current sound every few seconds. This sampled sound could then be assigned to one or more of the six to eight extra voices. You could then create a unique polyphonic hybrid machine that plays back 6 or 8 variations of the basic sound you’re developing. Create sound-> assign to voice 2….tweak…assign to voice 3….tweak….assign to voice four.. etc.

It’s a difficult decision to make for the management team as in the coming months the Matrixbrute will face tough competition from a number of new analogue polyphonic synths. (dave smith rev) I hope the team manages to restore from all the setbacks in the previous year that lead to this very long period between announcing the synth and its availability. It must have caused a lot of stress in the Matrixbrute production team.
They should remember that despite all this they managed to create a fantastic synthesizer that’s already a classic. It’s a masterpiece of creativity and an unparalleled example of  technological courage.The build quality of the MB is excellent. In short is the best thing France has to offer at the moment. (forgetting about the wine and the cheese)
« Last Edit: January 27, 2017, 09:44:21 am by khidr »
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lensflare

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #1 on: January 25, 2017, 03:52:00 pm »
Very Very interesting!

it is a breif summary of future enhancements (for some of them) to feed Arturia's technicians...

it would be wonderful if every single limitation could evolve in an improvement.

the basis are escellent.

in my personal "request" chart are:

#1: Step Sequencer starting point setting (it will multiply the potential of Sequencer)
#2: Preset knob position indicator (this is MANDATORY, pease Arturia, do not miss this feature!!!!!)
#3: implementation of Sequencer+Arpeggiator mode (this will be available from next FW, as they said)

for what I use the Matribrute, these 3 enhancements could finalize my concept of "complete synth"
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timewindx

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #2 on: January 26, 2017, 09:07:56 am »
For me "The Panel <> Preset gap" is the biggest problem. I like this synth very much. Sounds great. Quality build is excellent. I have fun to play around with it. But that I can't see the knob position is a nogo!

BobTheDog

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #3 on: January 29, 2017, 08:19:29 am »
agree totally with the panel <> preset gap as well, hopefully they can some up with some display for this.

You can do circular modulation though using the 4 user defined destinations, I had ENV1 effecting ENV1 delay to change the slope yesterday and it worked.

F5D

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #4 on: January 29, 2017, 01:01:43 pm »
Thanks khidr for your views on the synth. I will get mine in the following days and will also contribute more on the forum soon. Can't wait to start tweaking!

I must say (on this forum too) that I am actually happy that Arturia put the limited analog BBD fx in the synth, because most people have external fx (or plugins) for high quality digital reverbs already available. In the case of MatrixBrute, the analog fx only enhances the analog experience, and does not make every single demo of it sound like DM12. Think about the fx as adding more analog flavor to the sound, and you add your favorite reverb afterwards. I have mentioned also at Gearslutz.com that I love analog BBD fx. Going with the BBD fx in the MatrixBrute to me is much more valuable than including digital fx that I would most probably just bypass / turn off, like I do with all my other synths, because I have all the tools available for high quality reverb already as plugins + hardware. To me, going with BBDs in the MatrixBrute tells that somebody at Arturia might be a true gear freak too, in contrary to other manufacturers going with digital emulations or big digital reverbs (helps getting bigger sounds at NAMM). Even the latest DSI synths would have much more authentic analog sound, if they had used true BBD fx like the MatrixBrute. The DSI "BBD delay" goes maybe 30 % there, missing all the nice artefacts that make the sound more dusty and analog. The MatrixBrute provides that great warm BBD fx sound.

IMO the optimal fx link for an analog synthesizer is: Analog fx (chorus / phaser / flanger / delay) -> digital fx (reverb) -> Analog / digital compression. If the MatrixBrute had digital fx built-in, it would not make much sense to go into an external analog BBD chorus or delay fx after a big digital reverb. The only way it would be better would be to have even more BBD stages for multiple simultaneous BBD fx in series. Now, it can be done using additional external BBD fx + finally go into a nice digital reverb. :)
« Last Edit: January 29, 2017, 01:14:48 pm by F5D »

khidr

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #5 on: January 29, 2017, 04:52:00 pm »
For me "The Panel <> Preset gap" is the biggest problem. I like this synth very much. Sounds great. Quality build is excellent. I have fun to play around with it. But that I can't see the knob position is a nogo!
About the Preset<>panel gap: Somewhere in China there must be a company that manufactures Voltage Controlled knobs for a reasonable price. Voltage Controlled knobs with a bit of build-in intelligence could respond to a voltage  in a similar  way  as oscillators and filters do now. An intelligent knob could be made to respond to voltages in the plus and minus 1-5V range, or whatever range is currently used for the oscillators.  It could be given an identity that is identical to its CC# value. So to set the VCO1oscillator knob to half-left, you would send it the cc#value 66 followed by a number in the range 1-127 which maps to the voltage range the knob can respond to; 66-33 would set the knob to half-left. This would enable you to control the setting of all knobs on the Matrix Brute. (or whatever synth you apply this on)
The knobs are already part of some sort of electronic grid, as their values need to be read, if you make that grid bidirectional you could send  CC# and position values to the knobs. So when you load a preset you could a series of CC# position values to the knobs which would then set themselves to the correct position.

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ruuud

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #6 on: February 03, 2017, 07:17:06 pm »
i don't know what you are trying to describe with "circular modulation". you mean things modulating themselves? thats very possible here, you just have to think a little.. the answer is with the macro knobs, which can both be sources and eestinations and can thus modulate themselves.

however, the patch you sort of describe here mixes cv and audio routings. that is something the matrixbrute does not do, but it's essentially audio modulation which is available on the 4 Audio Mod knobs (which can be modulation destionations in the matrix..)

so a lot more is possible than you think..;-)

timewindx

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #7 on: March 22, 2017, 07:07:01 am »
Im schon veröffentlichten deutschsprachigen Handbuch zur Version 1.1 steht folgender Shortcut als Lösung zum Panel-Preset-Gap:

PRESET + [Knobs, Sliders] zeigt den Werteunterschied ("Offset") zwischen der
physischen Position eines Reglers und dem tatsächlich im Hintergrund
gespeicherten Parameterwert an. Eine negative Zahl im Display gibt an, dass
sich der Regler gerade in niedrigerer Stellung befindet, als er sein müsste, um
den Parameterwert korrekt zu repräsentieren. Ein positiver Wert im Display
bedeutet, dass Sie den Regler zurückdrehen müssten, um zum tatsächlich
aktiven Parameterwert zu gelangen.

DrJustice

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #8 on: March 22, 2017, 01:22:41 pm »
Allow me to add a Google translation of that:

"In the already published German-language manual for version 1.1 the following shortcut is available as a solution to the panel-preset-gap:

PRESET + [Knobs, Sliders] shows the value difference ("offset") between the
Physical position of a controller and actually in the background
Stored parameter value. A negative number in the display indicates that
The controller is in a lower position than it should be
To correctly represent the parameter value. A positive value in the display
Means that you would have to turn the regulator back to the actual
Active parameter value."

That's excellent news :)

It raises the question: where is this new manual published and is it accompanied by a release of the corresponding firmware (I don't find it on the MxB resource page)?

Edit: A suggestion for the implementation: since the describes method requires two hands on the panel, I'd suggest an alternative and more ergonomic mode where this functionality is latched so that one can keep one hand on the panel and one on the keyboard. Something like holding the preset button for a couple of seconds could be used to toggle this mode on and off (although as far as I'm concerned it might as well be permanently active, in the same manner as the master cutoff and macro knobs).
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 01:51:38 pm by DrJustice »

SoundRider

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #9 on: March 22, 2017, 02:29:27 pm »
+1000 ... Yes ... "Hands-Free" is important for ergonomic work


VAU

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #11 on: March 22, 2017, 07:21:22 pm »
sorry for asking again but i don't see the download link on that page. there's downloads for fxpansion and modartt but i can't see any for arturia.



timewindx

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #12 on: March 22, 2017, 07:25:52 pm »
Oh, sorry, now it was deleted... ???

Please wait for official release.
« Last Edit: March 22, 2017, 08:35:54 pm by timewindx »

tomeso

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #13 on: March 22, 2017, 07:35:18 pm »
Oh, sorry, now it was deleted... ???

You can download it here: ...
There are probably reasons why the link has been put offline ... so I think it is not very polite to upload the file yourself.
Can you please put the file/link down until there is an official release at the Arturia webiste. Thank you.
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timewindx

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Re: The Limitations of the MatrixBrute
« Reply #14 on: March 29, 2017, 07:37:26 am »
The new manuals v1.1 are now online @ https://www.arturia.com/support/updates&manuals

 

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