Unipolar / Bipolar Live Encoder settings

[holografique]

I'm confused by this feature. The manual does not give much information, but I would assume they would work as follows:

1. Unipolar gives you a finite range from 0 to 1. 0 being 0% gain/output and 1 being 100% gain/output

2. Bipolar gives you a bi-directional range from -1 to +1. -1 being -100% of gain/output, 0 being 0% gain/output and +1 being +100% gain/output.

Right now it is not working this way at all. Both unipolar and bipolar settings act just like Bipolar. You still have to set the value to 0 to completely kill all gain/output of that routing.

either I'm not understanding this feature or something is not right...

-o

[tomeso]

Hi,

"either I'm not understanding this feature ..." Yep, you did not understand it.   

Here is an example:
If you set an LFO to modulate to the filter cut off, then the unipolar mod opens the filter (with positiv values) or closes the filter (with negative settings). The modulation works only in one direction from the cut off.

With a bipolar mod, the filter opens and closes "around" the cut off. Where a positive setting opens the filter first and then closes it. And a negative setting closes the filter first and than it opens again.

In other words:
If your filter setting is at 100, then unipolar could modulate from 100 -> 110 -> 100 (positive setting) or 100 -> 90 -> 100 with negative setting).
Bipolar modulation goes 100 -> 105 -> 95 -> 100 (positive setting) and 100 -> 95 -> 105 -> 100 (with negative setting).

Hope this helps

Frank

[holografique]

ok, so then how do I get a simple 0 to 100 live encoder option? I just want to be able to get a knob to do a simple 0 to the left, and 100 to the right just like you would with a regular hardwired knob.

today, you can't do that with this unipolar/bipolar option. you have to find the middle point in order to get a 0 value, and since the live encoders have no detent or stopping point, it is difficult to do this.

-o

[tomeso]

Okay ... I thought you did not understand the idea of unipolar and bipolar modulation in general and I had not noticed that you specifically asked for the settings of the encoders. Sorry for that!   

The idea behind the encoders was to simply give you easy access to the connected function. In terms of modulation depth, there is always positive and negative values and not a 0->100 value. For other parameters where there are only positive values (like Bit depth in the Bitcrusher with 1 to 16) the encoder work like you suggested.

If Arturia should include an option to use the encoders as an modulation source in a later update, you could use them in the same way you can use a mod wheel or the joystick.

As a work arround, you might want to try this:
In case of a modulation path, you can use the CVMOD module to control the modulation depth (just like it was until version 1.1.x). If you use the encoder to control the CV Gain, than you will have a 0->100 live encoder.

Use the Joystick or the Mod Wheel to control the AM (amp modulation) of your mod source. These controllers also generate an output from 0->100.

Cheers

Frank

[holografique]

no worries frank. I appreciate the response. I understand how it works, it just didn't seem to work the way I wanted it to. =:)

I think overall it would be nice to have the ability to have a 3rd option for a live encoder to send a basic 0-100 range value, just like a hardwired encoder, joystick or mod wheel, etc. An example of this would be where I am creating my own Jupiter-8 template and I want one of the live encoders to control the amount of Xmod between VCO1<->VCO2. With the unipolar/bipolar options only, it is difficult to get it so that I can have a 0 to the left and 100 to the right, just like the real hardware did (there is no -1/+1 on those old synths). I know that I can use the joystick, but honestly I don't like the joystick for this purpose because I only want a strict 0-100 value in a circular direction, I don't want the free movement of the joystick.

otherwise, it sounds like using the CVMod module is a nice workaround. I'll give this a try tonite and see how it works. thanks for the tip!

cheers!

-o

[holografique]

using the CVModulator works great, but only for modulation sources. it will not work when you want to work with FM or audio outputs.

so for example this workaround does not work for my Jupiter8 template and creating the Xmod. I'm stuck with the unipolar/bipolar method only for controlling the amount of FM input to VCO1 coming from VCO2.

is there some other workaround possible?

-o

[Sean W]

The other workaround is to use a Minimixer with Ocs2 Audio Output connected to Input 1 of the mixer, and the output of the mixer connected to the FM input of Osc2.
Then you can use the Gain control of Mixer Ch1 (which can be assigned to a user knob) to adjust the amount of cross-modulation.

[holografique]

thanks sean, that worked out perfect!