Programmers: have any tips, for CS-80 or other synths?

[synthguy99]

Hey all.  I've been digging into the Origin over the past couple of days and getting my feet wet on programming from scratch.  It's surprisingly easy and intuitive.  I've been wondering if any of you have any techniques for creating specific instruments, such as the monster CS-80.  I'm highlighting the CS mostly because it seems that most other analog synths are pretty easy to recreate without clobbering the CPU.  Maybe, I'm still forgetting where the CPU meter is.

The full blown CS-80 can't be created, because the Origin doesn't have the resources.  I'm toying with a structure with a basic authentic CS channel, with a CS osc, two CS filters in high- and lowpass modes, a CS envelope, and of course an Origin output and env.  The other channel, I'm fussing with.  I made one with a CS osc, an Origin 12db BP filter, two Origin envs and output.  I threw in one Poly LFO and Ring Mod, though I'm not sure how to run the ring mod unit, or if it can be modulated with an envelope.

Just playing around with this setup, cranking up the resonance halfway and sweeping the filters with the envelopes, it sounds pretty close to CS-80s on the albums I have.  Very raspy, yet juicy.  Lower the resonance and it's easy to get CS brass.  Open the lowpass, put the Origin filter into lowpass mode and raise it some, add some PWM and you have CS strings.  And keep the TAE setting rather low, between 0-40 percent.  It does seem to start adding some odd overtones, as if the oscillators are detuning, for some reason.

Thanks to the manual not having a glossary, it's hard to find certain things.  I just stumbled onto where the TAE setting is. I've been skimming a bit, because it's a rather large manual.  So here are my questions.

How do you guys go about making a fairly authentic CS-80?  What filters, what voice/layer arrangement?

How do you use/place the ring modulator in the signal chain, or do you use the one in the effects?  Or do you use the Bode Frequency Shifter?

Is there a certain way to build synths that's most efficient?  With each arrangement, how is the CPU level?  How many notes of polyphony can you squeeze out?  Do you have any tips on making instruments more stable, less likely to hang or crash?

Any takers?  Any CS-80 fans out here? 

[Niccolo]

Building a complete CS-80 is not totally possible yet in the firmware version 1.1, or 1.2 that is about to be released. This is because the number of required modules and connexions would exceed the current capacity of Origin. It will be possible when we will release the version that will include the CS-80 template. Anyway, we added some modules from the CS-80 in the 1.1: the CS-80 filter envelope and the Ring Modulator FX.

To make a real-half-CS-80, (with only one synthesis line instead of 2), you would have to mix 3 oscillators (square, saw, and noise), filter them with a 2 pole HP, then with a 2 pole LP, then mix with a Sine oscillator. Control both filters with a CS-80 envelope, and the mix volume with a standard ADSR envelope. The LFO and RingMod in the real CS-80 were "prog" modules, not "voice". So you need to use the RingModFX and not the voice RingMod; for the LFO, connect the mono LFO 1 (in the prog page) to oscillators, filters and/or VCA. Connect velocity, aftertouch, and keyboard follow to about everything, and you're done.

A complete CS-80 would be the same thing... x2!

Anyway you won't get exactly the behaviour of the CS-80... For this, you should wait for the CS-80 template.

For the CPU level, we removed it in the 1.1, because it did not reflect the real CPU consumption, which is very hard to estimate. Just keep in mind the more oscillators and filters you use, the less the polyphony will be. Other modules are lighter in general.

[synthguy99]

Building a complete CS-80 is not totally possible yet in the firmware version 1.1, or 1.2 that is about to be released. This is because the number of required modules and connexions would exceed the current capacity of Origin. It will be possible when we will release the version that will include the CS-80 template.

Oh, indeed??  This interests me... 

To make a real-half-CS-80, (with only one synthesis line instead of 2), you would have to mix 3 oscillators (square, saw, and noise), filter them (etc)... Connect velocity, aftertouch, and keyboard follow to about everything, and you're done. A complete CS-80 would be the same thing... x2!

Anyway you won't get exactly the behaviour of the CS-80... For this, you should wait for the CS-80 template.

Oh, but I cannot wait.  I must have my CS-80 sound!  As it is, I'm pretty happy with the "instrument" I've created so far, and the CPU meter is down around 73.  But I am curious how other people have been making their CS-80 sounds.  As well as other synths.  I'm very curious if anyone has made anything that sounds similar to an Oberheim 8-Voice or Matrix 12, for instance.  Or a Prophet 5.

Oh, and I noticed your remarks about stability improvements with the 1.2 update.  I'm aware that you guys want to make OS 2.0 a serious overhaul with improvements in efficiency and stability, but I'd be eternally grateful for any progress in these earlier updates.  And man, having a full CS-80 template will be such a dream come true for me.  I'm already going crazy trying to capture all those Eddie Jobson, Vangelis and Brian Eno sounds with my fudged "Pseudo-80." 

[synthguy99]

Here's another question:  I want to make the CS-80's characteristic "auto bend," you know, when you hit a note, and the note begins at a lower pitch and glides up to its proper pitch.  The way I usually do it on other synths which don't have a dedicated pitch envelope, and it always works, is to use one of them, the filter envelope if nothing else.  I set attack at 0, decay at some nice value that takes a half second or so, and sustain at 0, then I invert it and send it to the oscillators.  This causes a nice upward bend to its proper pitch, and with sustain at 0, the notes are always on key.

The Origin however is giving me troubles.  With sustain at 0, the envelopes still act like they have some sustain value, so my notes play at random pitches based on note velocity.  And I prefer to use them with velocity so I can add this bend effect when I wish.  Has anyone been able to beat this monster into submission and get it to work right?  Or am I just going to have to wait for the CS-80 and Jupiter-8 templates?

Oh by the way, after getting rid of the old Midi thru box and getting a new one, the Origin has been rock stable.