OKAY...Where are the CS80 Template References Gone now???

[slammah2012]

OKAY Arturia...
Where are the (at a later date) CS80 Template References Gone to now???
I guess the CS80 can't be templated at all without the PolyAT,The Glissando,the 2 Sustain types, the dual bank of dual filters,the unique FilterADR,the Subosc reaching 1khz and the Monophonic Ring Modulator.....

Am I correct???

If not, could you explain how it can be achieved and how much developement time would be needed before the Firmware upgrades with these unique moduals???
or
is this a suprise feature of the Origin Keyboard...with the Ribbon???

Alternatively, use an existing synthesizer recreation: the MiniMg, the ARP 2600*, the Jupiter-8* or the Prophet 5*

* To be delivered later on as a free upgrade

[slammah2012]

No One???

[Philippe]

Building a full CS80 template requires specific synthesis and GUI developments.

Concerning the "synthesis" part here is the current status:
- PolyAT: OK
- Glissando: that's an extension of the portamento mode which is already implemented
- Sustain Types: todo (I'm still trying to figure out how it works...)
- Dual Filters: OK, basic bricks are there
- Filter ADR Envelope: almost OK Maybe some problems to fit the IL parameter, AL seems not to pose any problem
- SubOsc: may need to tweak a little some existing modules (mainly because the output would be an AUDIO class signal and not a modulation due to its max freq of 800Hz)
- Ring Modulator Effect: todo

Concerning the "GUI" part, we have the graphics but not the code that connect these graphics to the rest.

I cannot tell you anything about the time needed to complete that job. We have already started to work on the ARP2600 and some pieces of software written for the ARP can be reused for a synth such as the CS80. For the time being no decision has been taken inside Arturia regarding the following template(s).

Philippe Wicker
Lead developer Origin

[slammah2012]

Thankyou.....

[drogoff]

Building a full CS80 template requires specific synthesis and GUI developments.

Concerning the "synthesis" part here is the current status:
- PolyAT: OK

Yay!  Does this work for any module or only a special CS80 mode?

- Glissando: that's an extension of the portamento mode which is already implemented

Is there some kind of control over assignment mode (like on the Oberheim polys) so that one can tell where a note will glide from?

- Sustain Types: todo (I'm still trying to figure out how it works...)

Sustain I is like most poly synths: each note acts independently of each other.
In Sustain II, if you have a sound with a long release and hit a chord and let go, it will start dying away. However, if you then hit any new note, the old note will immediately stop.  This is great for using sounds with long release times but not having everything sound muddy like a piano with the sustain pedal held.
In addition, Sustain I and II work differently when it comes to pitch bend/ribbon and portamento on notes with long release times. In one, the ribbon is ignored and portamento freezes wherever it was when the key was release. In the other, it continues to respond to the ribbon and portamento continues after a key is released. I forget which is which.  Please make it so that there is a mode in which the old note cutoff works like the real CS80, but the ribbon/portamento always responds after notes are released. I think this is more useful than how the real thing works.
[/quote]

- Dual Filters: OK, basic bricks are there

Will this allow switching to 24db/ladder filter like cs80v?? Please??

- Ring Modulator Effect: todo

The ring-mod brings up a general question I have about Origin. This uses an OR of all keyboard gate signals and processes all voices. Does the Origin have a general ability to create instrument-wide modules vs per-key/voice modules. This is useful for stuff like ring-mod, effects, formants, etc. The Clavia Nord Modular implements this by splitting a patch into a polyphonic voice section and a monophonic FX section. I hope you have something similar.

  David

p.s. - check out http://therogoffs.com/cs80/ for technical details of the CS80, including full schematics.

[slammah2012]

Posted on: October 19, 2008, 12:11:12 pm
Quote by: drogoff 

Sustain I is like most poly synths: each note acts independently of each other.
In Sustain II, if you have a sound with a long release and hit a chord and let go, it will start dying away. However, if you then hit any new note, the old note will immediately stop.  This is great for using sounds with long release times but not having everything sound muddy like a piano with the sustain pedal held.
In addition, Sustain I and II work differently when it comes to pitch bend/ribbon and portamento on notes with long release times. In one, the ribbon is ignored and portamento freezes wherever it was when the key was release. In the other, it continues to respond to the ribbon and portamento continues after a key is released. I forget which is which.  Please make it so that there is a mode in which the old note cutoff works like the real CS80, but the ribbon/portamento always responds after notes are released. I think this is more useful than how the real thing works.

Sustain I on the CS80 is not really  like all of the other polysynths.....If you have played an 80, you will notice The repeating of a Key will scroll thru the oscillators in a rotating order with all releasing Oscillators still sounding, but what is abnormal, is the way that pitch gets assigned to the releasing portion....You can Not pitch bend a releasing note  in Sustain I... you can only pitch bend a note during Key on time....and if you lift the key in the middle of a pitch bend, it will remain at the bent Frequency during the release cycle.... This is the same using Porta/Glissando as well,...If the portamento ramp has not reached its note destination before the key enters Release, It will hang there partialy up the ramp between Note 1 and Note 2...Another Quirk with the Release in Sustain I is the Keyboard Scaling regarding Brilliance and Level....If you play a releasing C5 with your upper KYBD is set in the Center notch, and then play a C1 with Brilliance set +positive+,C5 releaseing sound will get Brighter when C1 gets triggered....the same happens across all 3 zones for brilliance and Level in Positive and negative amounts...

Sustain II is a Mono/Poly Mode....

you can  hold a Chord  with release in one hand..... and play a mono lead with the other leaving out the sustaining remnants on the lead hand....
When you then release the chord it will release its intended time unless interupted by new "note on" activity....This mode works great with Portamento because if youplay a 4 note chord down low and then add a four note chord at the top, you will hear 4 individual portamento ramps....but, if you hold a chord and decide to play a lead line, the first note of the lead will slide up from the held chord, but then the  portamento only occurrs  between each successive mono note after that, and if the notes are close together, the scaling rate of the portamento time is dramatically reduced ...
And Yes,.... it is this mode (SusII) where you can pitch bend releasing oscillators...
and, correct...Any "releasing oscillators" will be stolen by any "note on" event under SusII...

I could supply some sound samples of both modes........if needed........

 
Sustain I featuring "Changing Brilliance/levels"effect during  releasing osc... between upper/lower Zones.....also some ribbon bend showing hanging detuned pitches....
http://audio.xanga.com/slammah/7bdae2131276/audio.html

RingMod using SustII.....notice the stealing of first clusters releases from secondary or subsequent triggerd clusters....also notice the "Single/Mono" RM Depth EG(Attack/Decay)...
the Ring Mod EG only retriggers if all notes are "lifted/unheld/AllNotesOff".... any held key will continue the Envelope regardles of subsequent triggered events....
http://audio.xanga.com/slammah/819b52838140/audio.html

RingMod using SustI
More Bell like release
http://audio.xanga.com/slammah/6deca2838139/audio.html

Yamaha CS80 solo ...with portamento and ringmod ......all in Sust II....and with a bit of reVerb...
Keep in mind this is 1 dual preset....with only adjustments to portamento time and ringmodulation....
http://audio.xanga.com/slammah/d533e1038642/audio.html

Oh....
And Hello David.......
Nice new Colour Schematics........love em....
(Still trying to figure out your mystery Keyboard.....DX1 schems maybe???

[silicium_Ne.3s2.3p2]

As I love the CS-80 sounds, I may be tempted to buy an Origin one day if it can replace a computer running CS-80V, but the Origin specs  do not explain enough (emulation of oscillators only ?).Thanks to Arturia for further explanation.

[Patrice]

This is explained in the Origin's manual which you can freely download from this page :
http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/products/origin/resources.html

Roughly speaking here's what you get with firmware v 1.0 :
- The Origin synth based on modules (among which are to be found CS-80 oscillator (page 108) and CS-80 filter (page 116 and the note on page 117))
- the MiniMg template which is a ready to use synth. Its interface is close to the corresponding VST's.
So for the MiniMg, for instance, you can either use the template or build your own structure with modules.

For the other synth (CS-80, ARP2600 and Jupiter8), the templates will be available freely later when updates of the firmware will come (according to the video "Introducing Origin" presented by Frederic Brun, http://www.arturia.com/evolution/en/products/origin/media.html).
So, for now, you can only build your own CS-80-like synth with the given modules.

Here's a question to philwick : do the templates allow for options that can't be achieved through modules, or are they just a convenient façade ?

[slammah2012]

Here is an answer.....

The Templates would have to allow for more options than can be achieved by the modules...unless new modules are added  at the same time  the templates are introduced to the firmware...

You wouldnt be able to CS80 it with the current modules....

[Philippe]

And another answer 

Let's take a couple of examples to illustrate the specifics of templates.

1- the envelope mode of the MiniMg: there's a mode in the real MiniMg where you can set attack and decay together or separatly. This is not doable (I mean with a single control) in the modular section and is managed by the template code.

2- MiniMg (again): there's a knob that allows to crossfade between a noise and  another waveshape for the oscillator 3. This is managed using a single control by the template code.

3- multi outputs oscillators (eg ARP2600, CS80): as you have probably noticed, the Origin oscillators are single ouput. ARP2600 and CS80 oscillators may provide more than one waveshape at the same time. This could be done in the modular section using one oscillator per waveshape and by duplicating all the modulation inputs and settings (tune) shared by the "real" multi-output oscillator. The template code does all this in a way 1) that saves memory and cpu resources which could not be done in the modular section, and 2) much much more friendly to the user.