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Author Topic: The NEW version 2.0 THREAD!!!  (Read 27712 times)

omissis

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The NEW version 2.0 THREAD!!!
« on: October 11, 2005, 09:32:48 am »
Hi people, I'm there since a little while

As many people probably realised from their daily usage some things about the CS-80V were bettered and nearly all the bugs fixed;
The new version won't be sseing the light of day until first quarter of 2006 I suppose, but if you agree I would like to talk with you and deeply investigate into the remaining bugs and try to set the evolution of this yet legendary virtual instrument to another level.

It could be that Arturians will be considering the adoption of  more severe copy protections in the future, like other companies did , and I think that some improvements must be done , also to make the synth more appealable with relations to the hypothetical new copy protection type:

1. First of all ,to have FREERUNNING on master VCOs , over all the modulation vcos is , by now a not postponable task

2. There a new mode could be set: a CLASSIC one , with all the correct responses of envelopes, resonance etc.

3. Support for all the latest processors including SSE2 , 3Dnow and Altivec and multi-processor support, in order to manage this "heavy" synth in an easier way...

Let me know what do you think of my proposals and what are yours!!!
Max
Max

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eXode

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The NEW version 2.0 THREAD!!!
« Reply #1 on: October 02, 2006, 02:37:33 pm »
Hi, im a Prophet V owner and have only tried out the Demo of CS-80V.

I agree with both your points. I would love to see arturia redo their CS-80 in the same manner they did the Prophet V, I think the Prophet V is their best emulation yet and I'd completely love if they redid the CS80 with that updated technology and with Classic mode that doesn't have all the extra bells and whistles, just as close to the real deal as possible. This would be an instant winner for me.

Cheers!

omissis

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« Reply #2 on: October 03, 2006, 10:31:36 am »
The main things to do to get the most correct sonic response:

-redo the filters in order to have their original range from 25Hz to 25 KHz which assumes an importance with regards to aftertouch and velocity modulation

-slightly redesign the square to get that fuzzy character the original has

-slightly redo the sine to get the squary flavor

-redesign the sine modulator in the ringmod and carefully craft the AD envelope

-add the expression circuit with dynamic,frequency related smooth filter as in the original, which gives the well-known loudness effect

-add the chorus' feedback, actually missing

-fix some differences in the ribbon and sustain modes

-get the correct velocity response which is not flat but resembles to an ADR waveform, piano like

-reduce the range into some parameters, especially for the VCA ( the original adds 5dB more on aftertouch, not 60!!! )

I wish that these things which are long-time claimed by fans of the V will be received and applied, the CS80V deserves these to its further glory!
Max

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Boulotaur2024

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The NEW version 2.0 THREAD!!!
« Reply #3 on: October 06, 2006, 10:05:30 am »
And you'd deserve to work in collaboration with Arturia.
Would be about time they hired a competent cs-80 expert like you Max to polish their V.

Btw any release date/ETA for the 2.0 version ?

poropat

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« Reply #4 on: November 06, 2006, 11:29:44 pm »
now seems because of Mac Intel versions we will wait for a while, to get the 2.0 :cry:
VCollection 8

omissis

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« Reply #5 on: November 07, 2006, 11:18:40 pm »
Work in progress, guys, I haven't any news up lately...I trust the guys, better to have a late even good synth than a buggy or not correct one....
Cross your finger men, I'll do the same.... :wink:
Max

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MartinMM

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« Reply #6 on: December 02, 2006, 10:15:20 pm »
'The VCA and VCF envelopes both have a very fast available attack time of (1ms). However, longest attack time available is only 1 second. The release/decay times on both of these envelopes had a range of 10ms to 10 seconds.' - as found on synthmuseum.com

I would be so thankful if Arturia CS80V had correct envelope times.
However, rev 1.6 sounds truly amazing. And I never use the extra features, only those of the original CS80 :-)

omissis

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The NEW version 2.0 THREAD!!!
« Reply #7 on: December 03, 2006, 06:25:06 pm »
Same here, I use the multi from time to time but the real deal is the CS80 itself; by the way, I pointed ALL the differences between the HW and the SW, do you guys want me to list them?
Max

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MartinMM

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« Reply #8 on: December 03, 2006, 08:52:00 pm »
If you would be so nice, omissis, please list the differences taking the newest version 1.6. I've read the old posts and many of the issues you listed are fixed now.

I have read on this forum about an old 'bug' not permitting to set VCF attack below 1ms under certain conditions. How does it relate to the aforementioned quotation from synthmuseum.com? If they are right we shouldn't be able to go below 1ms, am I wrong?

omissis

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« Reply #9 on: December 04, 2006, 11:25:00 pm »
talking about differences......

VCOS:

CS80: fuller on basses than CS80V ( can match it if you add kinda -25dB of Sine Wave )

VCF:

CS80: the actual range of the filter is 25Hz-25KHz
CS80V: 20Hz-20KHz

The difference relates with the interaction of the HPF-LPF combination together with the usage of touch response ( velocity-aftertouch ): on the CS80 hardware you've got more "room" on the LPF before the HPF affects the sound

VCA: to me, the core part into the CS80 emulation, the hardware has 220 of them

CS80: the VCA has a subtle nonlinear distortion that enriches the bandwidth of the VCOs and VCFs
CS80V: seems too clean and ,unfortunately, dry sometime

Envelopes

CS80: has much shorter decay-release times
CS80V: has much longer decay-release times , but it's not supposed as a bad thing at all

Effects:
Ringmodulator:

CS80: the distinctive sound is given by a slightly distorted sine modulator ( about which I nailed it with a well-known modular softsynth ) and the envelope has a characteristic "hold" time of half a second before decay stage which has birth from the relationship between the Depth control and the decay stage of the envelope

CS80V: a "digital" sine modulator, meaning a purest-than-pure sine doesn't beef up the sound as the original, moreover the envelope behaves like a plain digital envelope

Chorus/Tremolo:

CS80 : there is a phasing effect coupled with the modulation which enriches a lot the sound, moreover the switching between Ch and Tr produces a "brake" effect like the Leslie

CS80V: misses those characteristics, plain and simple

Output and pedals:

CS80: has a so-called "Expression circuit" which links a photoresistor to 2 2nd order filters therefore linked with the pitch of the fundamental: those filters act like a "loudness" booster for the lower notes because enhance the fundamental by cutting part of the trebles

CS80V : misses this, plain and simple

Touch response:

CS80: has a unique velocity system: rather than a "level" it generates a kind of an ADSR waveform which peak is given by the action of velocity ; it superimposes to the envelope signal giving out a kind of piano action:the initial part  is an AD with peak whose inverse is sent as the "Initial pitchbend"
CS80V: has a more common "level" generator acting on the Sustain part of the envelope and the i-pb has its own envelope ( supposed by myself):

Aftertouch:
CS80: you can get fastly the top value of the aftertouch you set on the panel because of an exponential CV response
CS80V: harder, depending on the keyboard itself

More, each VCO had its trimmers on the CS80 while the CS80V has the "detune panel" only to offer an amount of TAE drift effect while a simpler detuning between VCOs could have been better... anyway if anybody wants to complete this list please feel free to do that
Max

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bg

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« Reply #10 on: December 05, 2006, 04:54:51 pm »
Quote from: "omissis"
talking about differences......

VCOS:

CS80: fuller on basses than CS80V ( can match it if you add kinda -25dB of Sine Wave )


Max, thanks for your good summary.

Fuller bass reminded me of this:  http://www.parsick.com/

This webpage automaticaly plays music (at least with Internet Explorer) that is mostly CS-80.  Listen to the sound of the dark foreboding bass notes.  Even with delay/reverb I can't quite get V to do this.  

-bart

MartinMM

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« Reply #11 on: December 05, 2006, 05:13:17 pm »
Thank you, omissis

omissis

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« Reply #12 on: December 05, 2006, 10:05:47 pm »
Quote from: bg
Quote from: "omissis"
talking about differences......

Max, thanks for your good summary.

Fuller bass reminded me of this:  http://www.parsick.com/

-bart


Yes, the album Steve did is mostly a CS80-Vangelis honouring even if more on the darker side; what jumps immediately to the ears is that the CS80 has a strong, and I mean it, fundamental: this wealth comes 90% from the VCOs because the filters are quite  ordinary 12/dB SVFs, moreover add to this the expression circuit ( actually missing on the V )which have the main task of bass boosting at low registers , as a legacy from the old electronic organ technology; last but not least the VCA ( remember this is the most important component of the whole thing ) which has a nice soft distortion on it output, and you can count more of 200 among the whole synth: what you have is a sound which is big like the MiniMg but subtler like an acoustic instrument...this is the goal Arturia should reach with the upcoming version 2.

PS, Bart you can push the sound of the CS80V if you add some -25dB of sinewave to get a very similar presence :wink:
Max

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MartinMM

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« Reply #13 on: December 06, 2006, 09:50:10 am »
I tried the trick with adding the sine wave and it sounds good. However, as the sine is added after filter, some sounds cannot utilise this to get more fullness. For example, longer VCF attack leaves the sine too audible.

Let's hope Arturia decides to deliver more updates :-)

omissis

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« Reply #14 on: December 06, 2006, 11:05:26 am »
It's a trick, Martin  :wink:  and it's just anexample to get a glimpse of how an oscillator of a CS80 sounds in the real world  :) ....after all if the CS80V aspires to be a perfect emulation it should hae to emulate everything :wink:
Max

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