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Author Topic: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim  (Read 2083 times)

rbashley

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Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« on: May 07, 2022, 01:16:51 am »
Hi,

I'm experiencing the exact same issue as @theboysmithy with Piano V2 randomly cutting out in the left channel.  I'm copying @theboysmithy's post verbatim because my experience is identical to his:

@theboysmithy wrote:
Quote
It's in standalone mode - load up the app, play the keyboard for a bit (doesn't matter which preset)  everything fine and dandy, then just cuts out audio on one channel after a couple of minutes. Only happens on Piano V2, none of my other V collection instruments...

I have tried with different headphones too, just to make sure it's not a hardware problem

I might just try reinstalling - though as it's happened on two different machines, am worried that I've just hit on a rare bug of some sort.

My controller is an Arturia KeyLab 61 MKII. Operating system is Windows 10. This system has several years of perfect operation.  Everything else is working perfectly in standalone mode, including Analog Lab and Pigments 3.0.  As well, I tried reinstalling Piano V2, but the problem persists.  I might put added emphasis on "random" when it comes to when the left channel cuts out; that is, I could go 5 minutes, or 30 seconds, or it can, but doesn't necessarily happen instantly upon switching to a new piano.  Often, if changing the mic positions or room setting for a particular piano sound, the left channel is restored, but only temporarily.

theboysmithy's hardware setup is different from mine, so while he may believe his bug with left channel cutout is rare, my exact duplication of his experience proves the problem is not unique. 

Any advice on what I ought to do next would be much appreciated! 

Thanks
bob
Prince Edward Island, Canada

 




LBH

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #1 on: May 07, 2022, 06:05:52 pm »
Hi,

I'm experiencing the exact same issue as @theboysmithy with Piano V2 randomly cutting out in the left channel.  I'm copying @theboysmithy's post verbatim because my experience is identical to his:

@theboysmithy wrote:
Quote
It's in standalone mode - load up the app, play the keyboard for a bit (doesn't matter which preset)  everything fine and dandy, then just cuts out audio on one channel after a couple of minutes. Only happens on Piano V2, none of my other V collection instruments...

I have tried with different headphones too, just to make sure it's not a hardware problem

I might just try reinstalling - though as it's happened on two different machines, am worried that I've just hit on a rare bug of some sort.

My controller is an Arturia KeyLab 61 MKII. Operating system is Windows 10. This system has several years of perfect operation.  Everything else is working perfectly in standalone mode, including Analog Lab and Pigments 3.0.  As well, I tried reinstalling Piano V2, but the problem persists.  I might put added emphasis on "random" when it comes to when the left channel cuts out; that is, I could go 5 minutes, or 30 seconds, or it can, but doesn't necessarily happen instantly upon switching to a new piano.  Often, if changing the mic positions or room setting for a particular piano sound, the left channel is restored, but only temporarily.

theboysmithy's hardware setup is different from mine, so while he may believe his bug with left channel cutout is rare, my exact duplication of his experience proves the problem is not unique. 

Any advice on what I ought to do next would be much appreciated! 

Thanks
bob
Prince Edward Island, Canada
Hi,

How can it be the excact same issue, if you are'nt having issues in Standalone mode?
In your qoute the issue is only in standalone mode. I understand you don't have issues in standalone mode.

However. To me it sound like it could be about some bad control mappings. I can't see what else should cause parameters to change.

If you use the host internal mapping, then do you still have the issue, if you remove all mappings for Piano V2? If no, then do you have the issue if you create a new project/ song?

If you use Piano Vs own MIDI Config, then do you still have the issue if you select and use the MIDI Config "Empty"?
Be sure none midi cc's is assigned in the list. The pedals will also not work then unless you assign that single control. But it's just to test if it make a difference.

rbashley

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #2 on: May 08, 2022, 12:24:33 pm »
Thanks for your reply and suggestions.   I apologize for my miscommunication concerning "everything is working in standalone".  I should have said "everything else EXCEPT Piano V2 is working" in standalone.

For the moment I'll leave it at that to see if this clarification changes anything in your diagnosis.  I'll reread your reply and may have questions concerning its advice.

Thanks!

bob 

rbashley

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #3 on: May 08, 2022, 01:43:25 pm »
I just tested several different Piano V2 presets in a new Reaper project.  No issues, no cutting out of left channel.

Your description/diagnosis concerning "bad control mapping" is beyond my beginner's grasp.  Sorry 'bout that, would you elaborate a little more so I get a clearer understanding of steps I can take based on what you're saying? For example how would go about removing all mappings to attempt the test your suggesting?

If it matters, I set the central dial just below the display on the keylab61 to "ANALOG", which I've always assumed is the standalone mode. All my Arturia products EXCEPT Piano V2 work properly in this mode.

Appreciate your patience and advice.

bob

LBH

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #4 on: May 08, 2022, 05:51:15 pm »
Your welcome.

Yes change the MIDI Config in standalone mode.
Check the red text on the attached image.

You might somehow have changed mappings without knowing.

More about MIDI Confiog in the manual.

rbashley

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #5 on: May 09, 2022, 03:14:33 pm »
 Whoa! You deserve you "Hero Member" status.   Not sure if my left channel cutout issue is completely solved, but definite progress happened after I followed your tip to switch the MIDI config to "Empty". I played with Piano V2 in standalone mode and the speaker cutout STOPPED happening! Thanks for including the photo with the red indicator. Appreciate that helpful tool.

But, afterwards, I noticed that by switching to EMPTY, I lost the MIDI signal from my sustain pedal.  No sustain.  But no speaker cutouts either. 

Encouraged by this state of affairs because it certainly looks like  your diagnostic sleuthing is in the right place. 

So, I reswitched the MIDI mapping from Empty back to Default. This restored my sustain pedal fuction.  Over the course of the next half-hour or so, the left channel again did conk out, but only a couple of times, nowhere near the same frequency as before. But for some weird reason the cutout appeared to be happening ONLY with the Default piano (American Grand preset).  I ran through a bunch of the other piano sounds and did NOT experience any left channel cutouts at all and plus I had my sustain. 

I'll keep testing to see if I can run through the list of preset piano sounds without the annoying speaker cutouts, and if they do happen, whether in fact it's only with the Default American Grand.  Maybe as I'm describing this makes utterly no sense at all, and maybe something else is happening.  Overall, however, it does appear you've rescued the sick patient and given him a chance at a longer life!  hehe

Thank you so much for kindly (and patiently) improving my life!   :D

bob

LBH

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #6 on: May 09, 2022, 05:27:04 pm »
Good.
If that helped, then it does look like a Midi CC issue.
But can you please post a screenshot of your "Default" Midi Configs listed parameters? You should not have any issues at all.

In the list you ie can see MIC PAN parameters. If you somehow engage a control that's assigned to such parameters, then you change the panning. That can cause you only hear sound in one channel.

rbashley

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #7 on: May 09, 2022, 11:01:57 pm »
You may be onto something with your hunches about MIC PAN.  I can say that with any given piano preset, if the cutout happened I could restore the left channel by switching mic positions options. This would work for a minute or maybe 5 mins or maybe 2 seconds. And one time I did the reverse, that is, I was getting a full signal from both monitors, then I switched mic positions and left channel cutout would be instant. But this test was not repeatable, one or two times yes, the rest of the time no. 

I have used mic position/panning options quite a bit, so it kinda sounds like I might have screwed something up to cause the cutouts.

Again, your diagnostic senses are really pretty impressive and I can't thank you enough for taking time to help.

Here's a screenshot of the MIDI Configs


bob

LBH

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #8 on: May 10, 2022, 02:12:12 am »
Lets see.

If you can fix it with setting the MIC PAN settings, like you say you can, then it does look like it's about that. But then we have to find out, why the values change.

Now you have to go deeper.

You have a Arturia Keylab MK2 controller.
Are you in USER mode, when you play Piano V2?

I don't have a Arturia controller, so can you tell me, if you have a speciel Keylab MK2 MIDI Config you can select? At this point i assume not.

But your controller does have 3 banks of midi CC controls.
4 of those controls is set to use midi CCs that control the MIC PANS. Can you tell me, if those controls is set to a Relative or to a Absolute mode, in the USER preset template in Arturia Midi Control Center, that you use. Perhaps you also can see it on your controller.

In the default MIDI Config in Piano V2, then rightclick with your mouse over the MIC PANs in the Pianos MIDI Config to check the mode they are set to, and inform me about that.
The Ch and CC columns in the MIDI Config give you the midi channel and the midi CC the parameter is set to be be controlled with.

Doing the above we check to see, if the Keylab MK2 template you use and the Piano V2 MIDI Config you use is set to the same mode, like they should be.
They might not be in the same mode.

Also can you tell me, if you touch any controls on your Keylab MK2, when you play?

I can suggest you learn to make your own MIDI Configs in the applications.
Also i suggest you learn to make USER templates for your controller.
No matter what, then i will say you learn something about how things work. That can help you a lot in the future.
« Last Edit: May 10, 2022, 02:55:31 am by LBH »

rbashley

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #9 on: May 10, 2022, 04:05:41 pm »
Thanks LBH for persisting with this investigation.  You've got a number of various probes I'll need to look at and report back on.

At least I can answer your first question about which mode.  Normally, I'd use the ANALOG mode because I can scroll through categories, types, and select presets from the controller itself. Piano V2 does work in DAW or USER mode, but without the scrolling/selection functions.


I just finished a 30 minute session with Piano V2. in the first minute or so I experienced a sudden dropout in volume, not left channel dropout. Weird, but after that the rest of session went trouble-free, working perfectly.

LBH wrote:
can you tell me, if you have a speciel Keylab MK2 MIDI Config you can select? At this point i assume not.

I took a photo of the KeyLab MK2 MIDI Config menu.  Attached.  I couldn't do a screenshot because the menu collapses as soon you move the cursor off it.

LBH wrote:
But your controller does have 3 banks of midi CC controls.
4 of those controls is set to use midi CCs that control the MIC PANS. Can you tell me, if those controls is set to a Relative or to a Absolute mode, in the USER preset template in Arturia Midi Control Center, that you use. Perhaps you also can see it on your controller.


When you say "3 banks of midi CC controls" are you referring to the KeyLabs 3 main modes of operation? i.e. 1) ANALOG; 2) DAW; and 3) USER

I opened the MIDI Control Center, which I've never explored before!  Looking around for the Relative/Absolute,  I took a screenshot of one area indicating Absolute, but beyond that I don't really understand what I'm looking at.

LBH wrote:
Also can you tell me, if you touch any controls on your Keylab MK2, when you play?

Not normally, however, yes, sometimes I'll twirl a knob or experiment with a fader.  When I do that, they appear to respond as they should, and they are not triggering any left channel cutout.

I really appreciate your helpful suggestion to learn more about making my own configs.  It should take the experience of suffering to make me realize that, but this is certainly opening my eyes. And the way you're leading me through these steps is not only instructive, but enjoyable! 

LBH wrote:
In the default MIDI Config in Piano V2, then rightclick with your mouse over the MIC PANs in the Pianos MIDI Config to check the mode they are set to, and inform me about that.
The Ch and CC columns in the MIDI Config give you the midi channel and the midi CC the parameter is set to be be controlled with.


I hope I'm following your steps properly here!  See the screen shot.  In the Default MIDI Config, all of the MICs 1,2,3, and 4 are similarly set to Absolute.

Lots for me to absorb, thanks so much again for walking me through this thicket!

bob

rbashley

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #10 on: May 10, 2022, 04:14:28 pm »
Not sure if this info is useful or not. 

My previous reply with all the photos and screenshots took about a half-hour to write and post.  Immediately afterwards I returned to my keyboard with Piano V2 and the first note struck revealed that the left channel had cut out again.

I switched from that preset to something new and instantly the left channel audio was restored.  For how long, can't say.

I can't imagine how duration, time, and doing nothing for a half hour would do anything unless there's some kind of background electronic signal processing that goes on or cycles whether the hardware/software are active or not.

MajorFubar

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #11 on: May 10, 2022, 04:38:56 pm »
If flicking through the presets restores the left channel, even for just a short amount of time, IMO this problem has got 'bug' written all over it, but it doesn't make sense why all Windows users aren't experiencing it. I think we established a few posts ago that this only affects the standalone version for you, if I am correct. There must be a big clue in that somewhere, and I can see why LBH latched onto the MIDI CC issue because that's something opening Piano V2 as a plugin in a DAW would likely override. But this business of it restoring itself when you flick back and forth through presets blows that idea out the window, IMO, because presumably you aren't changing anything the moment before the sound cuts out.

I think I'm going to have to stick with my original diagnosis that this is a software bug which for some reason only manifests itself on certain configurations of motherboard/Windows build/audio device (unless someone else strikes gold with the definitive answer). For what it's worth it doesn't manifest itself on the Mac version, which is probably not surprising considering they are basically different apps.
2022 Apple Studio Max 32/32/2TB Monterey V Collection 9 Analog Lab 4 + 5 KeyLab 88 KeyStep

rbashley

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Re: Piano V2 - Left Audio Cuts Out - Another victim
« Reply #12 on: May 11, 2022, 12:56:50 am »
Thanks @MajorFubar for contributing your perspective on this thorny issue I'm having with Piano V2 cutting out randomly in the left channel.

Yes, your assumption that I'm not doing anything which triggers the cutout is correct. Today I ended a standalone session with Piano V2, but left the program open and my KeyLab61 MKII on to do some other chores.  I had been playing for about a half hour with no cutouts. Then I left for half hour or so, came back, and with the first strike of a key the left channel cut out.  I switched mic positions to restore it and that worked fine for 5 minutes thereabouts, then another cut out, so I switched presets to a different piano. All good for another half hour or so with no speaker cut off.

I would assume that your thinking about a possible mismatch with my motherboard and/or Windows points to a zillion more possible causes/fixes. It's funny but I've had Piano V2 for several years and this problem appears to have started for me only weeks ago. Would an Arturian update of Piano V2 be a potential candidate for triggering this issue?

Thanks again for weighing in.

bob

 

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