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Author Topic: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work.)  (Read 5208 times)

LarsDaniel

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Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work.)
« on: May 02, 2020, 01:25:35 pm »
Setup: KSP connected to Expert Sleepers FH-2 (midi to cv interface) via USB.

KSP playing a simple bassline, a track of four-note chords, on the drum track a straight four-on-the-floor kick. (100% quantized).
The timing of the kick is noticeably sloppy, like a drummer struggling to keep time. Something anybody would notice.
If I mute the two other tracks, timing improves a lot (perhaps even perfect.)

If I now take the kick gate directly from KSP to my drum module, the timing is flawless (with the other tracks also playing).

I am powering KSP from the wallwart. I have tried different USB cables. Also I am quite certain, that I can rule out the FH-2, because, if I disable everything in it except the one output with the gate for the kick, it is still sloppy as long as KSP is playing the other tracks.

So it seems that midi through USB is a tight bottleneck. (I can not test midi through DIN at the moment.)

Has anybody found timing problems like this?
I can not think of anything else I can do. I hope this is not the way it is going to be.
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 07:41:50 pm by LarsDaniel »

ASDPC

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Re: Serious midi timing issues.
« Reply #1 on: May 02, 2020, 01:46:57 pm »
This could be related:

I have observed that many times MIDI notes sent over USB are being "buffered". If I monitor the MIDI messages, I can see that the first 6 notes I play won't show up. Then when I press the 7th key, the 1st one will be sent. If I play an 8th note, the 2nd will appear and so on, I think you get the idea.

Same happens with CC messages from the control knobs. In general, it's like the USB controller in the KSP always lagged behind a fixed number of MIDI events.

The DIN outputs however seem to perfectly send MIDI events in real time. No issue with that.

After a reboot, some times the issue will disappear and some other times it is still there or I'm not even getting a single MIDI event at all.

At first I thought the problem was my USB hub, so I tried to connect the KSP directly into the USB 3.0 ports on my MB, but it was to no avail: the issue is still there (if not immediately, it returns after a little while).

Another thing I tried was powering the unit with the provided power adapter, as I initially powered it exclusively over USB. It made no difference either.

LarsDaniel

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Re: Serious midi timing issues.
« Reply #2 on: May 02, 2020, 06:59:19 pm »
This is VERY interesting.

LarsDaniel

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Re: Serious midi timing issues.
« Reply #3 on: May 02, 2020, 07:40:54 pm »
The issue that ASDPC wrote about here, sounded a bit like another issue I just found today, and have been investigating. So I made a very simple test:

WIth everything stopped, nothing playing, I played some notes on KSP connected via USB to my FH-2 interface, and then into a synth. Something was clearly wrong. I was never hearing the note pressed, but only previous notes. So I counted notes. By playing one note repeatedly, and then moving on to the next note, I found that I heard the "old" note five times, but from the sixth repeat of the new note, I would finally hear the new note. So conclusion is, that there is a buffer of five notes (or perhaps five midi messages) before getting to the one that should have been played.

So to out-rule the FH-2 interface, I connected my old Keystep via USB, and did the same. No problem what so ever.

Then I connected the KSP again, but now it worked as it should. But this corelates completely to what ASDPC writes, that sometimes the problem goes away for some time.


This is a completely unacceptable bug, and I frankly expect Arturias software team to work their butts off the next days and nights. I expect a solution for this VERY soon.

Here is the TLDR: The USB connection of the new Keystep Pro does not work. It is broken, sick, ill, defunkt, screwed, tres malade. Fix it please.

Thank you.

LarsDaniel

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Re: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work.)
« Reply #4 on: May 02, 2020, 07:56:57 pm »
Further info: If I unplug USB and plug it in again, the problem goes away, but it takes less than a minute for it to be back again.

johndoe

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Re: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work.)
« Reply #5 on: May 02, 2020, 08:24:48 pm »
+1

I had so many issues with "Midi through USB" in the past it all failed (TR8/TR8S, etc.) so from now on I'll only use Midi devices to prevent latency.

I also stop using aggregate devices as they often cause bugs, conflicts, loops, etc. between my Audient ID14 and Roland SE 02 for instance.

I feel like the USB is sloppy on the KSP's current firmware so I'm waiting for my Midi interface (18i20) to arrive, this way it will be perfectly synced with Ableton (a friend of mine is doing that with his Keystep and his synths, working great).

Also I feel like when playing in Live Seq mode with my KSP the notes are always behind the grid (and as a result, in Ableton clips), is it because Quantize is not activated by default, or because again using USB makes the sync with Ableton sloppy?
« Last Edit: May 02, 2020, 08:30:58 pm by johndoe »

LarsDaniel

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Re: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work.)
« Reply #6 on: May 02, 2020, 09:09:58 pm »
Well, I would not say in general that midi via usb is bad. It definitely worked fine with Keystep and Beatstep Pro. With Keystep Pro it is just not working yet.

winddealer

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Re: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work.)
« Reply #7 on: May 06, 2020, 06:19:42 pm »
Thank you Gentlemen.  I should be receiving a KSP this Friday.  From your advice I will NOT be using USB and instead using Midi DIN for the foreseeable future.
I must say, that the KeyStep Pro Forum is quite useful if nothing more than to save valuable time avoiding Troubleshooting known issues.  Now, on to the next workaround. Any other tips ?   Like save your receipt?  Gratefully.
KSP, KS, KL61 MkII, VCol7, Faderfox EC4, Peak, Tyros4, Reaper

LarsDaniel

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Re: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work.)
« Reply #8 on: May 08, 2020, 09:14:58 am »
It would be great though, if you could test the USB connection. I think it is quite weird, that we are only two people to have reported this strange midi message buffer on midi via USB.

winddealer

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Re: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work.)
« Reply #9 on: May 09, 2020, 06:57:16 am »
Was informed today by UPS that shipment is delayed till Monday :) .  Will check both Midi DIN and USB after arrival.
KSP, KS, KL61 MkII, VCol7, Faderfox EC4, Peak, Tyros4, Reaper

Edouard_Arturia

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Re: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work.)
« Reply #10 on: May 14, 2020, 09:09:06 am »
Hello guys.
Sorry to read about this issue.
Can you please reach the support to troubleshoot this further?
If you can provide a precise description of your setup plus some steps to reproduce it will definitely help us nail the issue.
Best regards and sorry for this temporary inconvenience.
Edouard
DGDGDGDGDG

t0m4

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Re: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work
« Reply #11 on: May 24, 2020, 11:17:37 pm »
I also have serious midi issues with the key step pro.

The usb is not stable at all and sync is out of sync after a while.

I use Ableton live on a Mac mini 2018 and If I put live at 136BPM the key step is going from 135,90 to 136,10.

At first it s quite sync to my ears but if I let the loop playing ( let's say 3 mins ) after a while it goes completely out of sync. stop and start doesn't help, only a key step pro reboot solves the issue.

There is definitely a sync issue with the USB on the key step pro, I use many usb devices including the key step first generation and I do not have any problem.





johndoe

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Re: Re: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work
« Reply #12 on: May 26, 2020, 07:40:21 am »
I also have serious midi issues with the key step pro.

The usb is not stable at all and sync is out of sync after a while.

I use Ableton live on a Mac mini 2018 and If I put live at 136BPM the key step is going from 135,90 to 136,10.

At first it s quite sync to my ears but if I let the loop playing ( let's say 3 mins ) after a while it goes completely out of sync. stop and start doesn't help, only a key step pro reboot solves the issue.

There is definitely a sync issue with the USB on the key step pro, I use many usb devices including the key step first generation and I do not have any problem.

Don't use Midi via USB with KSP it's now well proven by us users that it doesn't work. I'm afraid you will have to use Midi only (which is a bummer when like me I was relying on USB since I don't have Midi audio interface). It's only one of the 100 issues listed for this KSP...

t0m4

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Re: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work.)
« Reply #13 on: May 31, 2020, 08:27:18 pm »
Indeed with midi it's rock stable.

Can't understand how suchs flaws could ecape from a beta test of the unit....

Anyway hopefully it will be fixed soon.


Thorsten

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Re: Serious midi timing issues. (Midi via USB does not work.)
« Reply #14 on: June 12, 2020, 01:49:25 am »
A new firmware version is out. Is the problem fixed ?
Thanks for reply.

 

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