How to record the BSP into Logic X (?)

[stikygum]

I watched a tutorial setting up Logic X on youtube (not an Arturia vid) as well as watching the tutorial for setting it up with Ableton Live. Those don't help because they only cover a small amount of specific info. I would like to see a step by step in the manual for each DAW. But until then, maybe someone can help me out with this.

In Logic X, I set up my BSP in the Midi Environment like in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I12WB1jWB6c). Not in the video or BSP manual, I went to Logic X > Preferences > Midi > Sync. Then I clicked 'Midi Sync Project Settings'. I clicked the boxes for Transmit MTC and Transmit MMC as well as 'Listen to MMC input'. Also under ''Transmit To - Destination', I selected the Arturia BSP.

After doing this, I can press play in Logic and have it play what's in the BSP sequencer, but I can't record it. Any idea how Logic needs to be set up to record from the BSP?

[smutek]

Last step is to go back to the midi environment, create a sequencer input, and then run the sequencer input to each instrument you're linking to the BSP.

Sequencer input is what enables the devices to input data into the sequencer. Check the authors comment in the video you linked to.

That said, I've set this up in Logic a few times now and just feel like it's so cumbersome. It's quick enough once you've done it a few times, but for some reason, almost every time, one device out of the three will randomly disconnect and no longer receive midi from the BSP. Then I have to go back into the midi environment and set it back up.

Also, what's up with that tiny little physical input window? Even when I drag it to resize all the text is crammed up and I have to get out a magnifying glass to figure out which output  to drag out from. I'm not sure why Logic doesn't have a simple "midi from channel xx" selector for each instrument channel, like Ableton.It's so much quicker to set up in Ableton,  but then I'm dealing with the extra latency. Blah.

[stikygum]

Last step is to go back to the midi environment, create a sequencer input, and then run the sequencer input to each instrument you're linking to the BSP.

Sequencer input is what enables the devices to input data into the sequencer. Check the authors comment in the video you linked to.

That said, I've set this up in Logic a few times now and just feel like it's so cumbersome. It's quick enough once you've done it a few times, but for some reason, almost every time, one device out of the three will randomly disconnect and no longer receive midi from the BSP. Then I have to go back into the midi environment and set it back up.

Also, what's up with that tiny little physical input window? Even when I drag it to resize all the text is crammed up and I have to get out a magnifying glass to figure out which output  to drag out from. I'm not sure why Logic doesn't have a simple "midi from channel xx" selector for each instrument channel, like Ableton.It's so much quicker to set up in Ableton,  but then I'm dealing with the extra latency. Blah.

Ah thanks! Recording is working now.

I'm having an issue with all the tracks of the Beatstep Pro recording into whatever track I have selected in Logic X. I'm going to have to look at getting the separate track data filtered properly. Not sure what's causing this. Muting the other tracks works of course, but then they can't be played together.

I agree on the physical input for Logic. I never understood why they haven't improved the environment to make it more friendly to use.

[smutek]

Hey, I'm guessing you've already done this, and know that the BSP default sends midi from CH1 on sequencer 1, CH2 on sequencer 2, and CH10 on the drum sequencer. Make sure you've got each transformer in the Logic environment set to receive midi from its corresponding channel.

I seem to remember this being kind of flakey in Logic too. Like, I had everything set up correctly (or so I thought)  but things would just randomly stop working, or didn't record as I thought it would. I'll double check this again tonight and post back.

As an aside/rant, it's kind of annoying. I have Live & Logic, but mostly use Live. I've been considering switching to Logic full time because, despite all the cool stuff in Ableton I'm dealing with noticeable latency, audio pops and dropouts when I'm only at 16% CPU and a 128 sample buffer size. I try switching over to Logic, which performs infinitely better than Ableton, but have to deal with all the weirdness that is the midi environment.

First world problems, I know. 

[smutek]

Hey again, for the recording issue, go in to File/Project Settings/Recording and check "Auto demix by channel if multi track recording".

All three tracks need to be record armed, and it's going to look like it's recording everything into one channel, but when finished it will split the recordings out properly.

This works fine, except if you only have one track record enabled, in which case Logic will record all three tracks into that one track again, wtf.

Also, it doesn't look like you can hot swap instruments on the channels - like, say you have a drum machine on channel 3, you can change the sounds by accessing the instrument via the channel strip - but if you load something, even another drum kit, via the sound browser section on the left, it screws up the midi routing and I guess you need to set it up for that channel again. Here's a quick demo -

http://jimmysmutek.com/logic-wtf/

Ugh, does it really have to be this difficult?

[smutek]

Actually man, the whole thing seems to work much better by just setting the "Auto demix by channel if multi track recording" and skipping the midi environment stuff entirely.

1) Start a blank project
2) Add the BSP in File/Project Settings/Synchronization - Midi (if running BSP as a slave to Logics clock)
3) Add three instruments, set the corresponding midi channel in each instruments track setting
4) Set the "Auto demix by channel" setting

You still have to have all three tracks record enabled, but you can hot swap instruments and you don't have to deal with the midi environment.

*edit - quick screen capture -
http://jimmysmutek.com/logic-bsp-muchbetter/

Definitely much better for me. I'll save the environment stuff for when I'm hooking up hardware.

[Recbutton]

Hi Guys

I totally agree. Logic's Environment is somehow cumbersome, and not very well explained in the manuals however it has been like that since version 1. It is the core of Logic and I guess Apple would have to re-write the whole program. Who knows, with recent changes they might be working towards that slowly 
Before version X I used to make an arpeggiator and step sequencer in the environment without even dreaming of luxuries we have now 
I have been using Logic since version 3.4 when it belonged to Emagic, circa 2002 and I kind of ate my own teeth on Logic's environment and I hate it as much as I love it.


@stikygum - the method mentioned in the video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I12WB1jWB6c) is still incomplete, even if you add the Sequencer Input or Input Notes (both are the same component but with different names) and connect your channel strips into it.

Please note there is only one Sequencer Input in the Environment so by creating one through the menu in the mixer layer of you are not really creating one, you are moving it from Click and Ports layer (that's where it sits by default).

Ok so by following an advice which was added in description to the video by connecting channel strips back to sequencer input a MIDI loop is created.
As a result selected or (REC enabled) tracks will receive MIDI coming back from already triggered by BSP instruments, if selected track is one of the designated BSP tracks/instruments there will be a double triggers or simply all BSP tracks triggering currently selected instrument.  I hope you are with me on that one

There is a workaround I believe but it makes things little bit more complicated.

@smutek - try to resize the Physical Inputs object horizontally only, still small but it spreads the text making it easier to recognise the outputs.The method you are using to get BSP work with Logic is fine providing:

1) you only transposing within BSP (which is crap - try to transpose from D3 to B2 - mission impossible isn’t it !?)
2) you are not inputing notes from an external keyboard/controller
3) you only triggering or recording notes for short period for assigned software instruments controlled by BSP - as soon as you want to move onto another (independent from BSP track) you are screwed, BSP triggers just selected track.

You can’t hot swap track settings within browser without disconnecting environment components. This is pretty much normal, imagine you swap gear units in your rack stack or channels in the mixer without disconnecting the cables

Once all the connections are made I would suggest saving that as a template. All your environment’s connections will be saved within that template. If anything goes tits up (i.e. BSP stops working - like mine does periodically) all you have to do is reconnect cable between BSP out within Physical Input and the Monitor component. All your other connections will still be there.
I never had any cable disconnected within environment on it’s own unless it was connected to the object which was representing external (physical) device.

If it ever happens to you to record all three sequencers on one track use right click command - MIDI - Separate by MIDI Channel.


One more note to that video: you don’t have to use monitor and set the transformers for each channel, instead Channel Splitter component can be used which simplifies the setup   

[Recbutton]

@smutek

Sorry to bother you but you couldn't do me a favour and compare note recordings from BSP to yours ?
If you could sync BSP to Logic, input straight 4/4 kick, record back into Logic and zoom right in on the notes please.
 
Synch on mine is all over the place I can not only see that I can hear that - it's so annoying.
Someone here said "yea but this is only small amount latency". God it's not small - I can bloody hear that 

Please see screen shots attached.

[Recbutton]

I watched a tutorial setting up Logic X on youtube (not an Arturia vid) as well as watching the tutorial for setting it up with Ableton Live. Those don't help because they only cover a small amount of specific info. I would like to see a step by step in the manual for each DAW. But until then, maybe someone can help me out with this.

In Logic X, I set up my BSP in the Midi Environment like in this video (https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=I12WB1jWB6c). Not in the video or BSP manual, I went to Logic X > Preferences > Midi > Sync. Then I clicked 'Midi Sync Project Settings'. I clicked the boxes for Transmit MTC and Transmit MMC as well as 'Listen to MMC input'. Also under ''Transmit To - Destination', I selected the Arturia BSP.

After doing this, I can press play in Logic and have it play what's in the BSP sequencer, but I can't record it. Any idea how Logic needs to be set up to record from the BSP?

I don't think you can have BPS synched to Logic and send MMC form BSP at the same time. It does not work at mine, well it works, but then you can start BSP with transport buttons but it won't be synched to Logic anymore.

[smutek]

Hey Recbutton - sorry, just saw your post.

My input to logic is pretty consistent with your second screen shot - see the image here -

http://cl.ly/2o3C0X1S3V18/o

I think that's just latency, no?

Compare that to Ableton, which is just a ridiculous amount of latency -

http://cl.ly/0O3L3B0o2b2Z

[Jezza]

Actually man, the whole thing seems to work much better by just setting the "Auto demix by channel if multi track recording" and skipping the midi environment stuff entirely.

1) Start a blank project
2) Add the BSP in File/Project Settings/Synchronization - Midi (if running BSP as a slave to Logics clock)
3) Add three instruments, set the corresponding midi channel in each instruments track setting
4) Set the "Auto demix by channel" setting

You still have to have all three tracks record enabled, but you can hot swap instruments and you don't have to deal with the midi environment.

*edit - quick screen capture -
http://jimmysmutek.com/logic-bsp-muchbetter/

Definitely much better for me. I'll save the environment stuff for when I'm hooking up hardware.

I spent hours messing around with the midi environment to get the BSP working correctly, watched YouTube and read countless forum and guides but still had all sorts of issues. as this poster says just set the auto demux and it seems to work ok, not ideal but it works.

[Recbutton]

Hey Recbutton - sorry, just saw your post.

My input to logic is pretty consistent with your second screen shot - see the image here -

http://cl.ly/2o3C0X1S3V18/o

I think that's just latency, no?

Compare that to Ableton, which is just a ridiculous amount of latency -

http://cl.ly/0O3L3B0o2b2Z

Cheers Smutek!

That is not a latency I am afraid mate, this is messed up clock in BSP.

MIDI latency is a past, it does not exist in modern gear, not to that degree anyway.
Last time I have experienced such MIDI latency was on Logic 3.4 with a crappy M - Audio midi interface about 13 years ago.

I had Doepfer Dark Time before BSP, the recorded notes were bang on, all in time - also connected via USB, also a digital sequencer.
I have NI Maschine, there is no latency, all the notes start right at the grid, unless shuffled of course.

This sucks man, it totally sucks!
This and other bugs.

[smutek]

Oh man, the Dark Time looks so killer, it's been on my wish list for a while now.

Well, that definitely sucks about the clock - let me ask this, if you're running all out board gear do you have timing issues? For example, if I have BSP driving 3 Volcas everything syncs up fine and sounds tight.

But, if I record a sequencers output to midi and then play it back from the DAW, that track will be noticeably out of time with what's playing on the sequencer.

I just took these two screen shots this evening, both devices are slaved to Logic's clock.

This one is a 4/4 kick pattern sequenced with Lemur for iPad, with the iPad connected directly to an iConnect Midi device (not wifi).

https://jsmutek.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/lemur.jpg

This one is the same 4/4 kick pattern sequenced with BSP, connected via USB.

https://jsmutek.files.wordpress.com/2016/02/bsp.jpg

BSP is definitely off more than Lemur, but what would you say that is, milliseconds?

I dunno man. So, why did you get rid of your Dark Time?

[Recbutton]

Looks like Lemur is tighter than BSP.

The thing is,  if you play all the gear without any other reference - like Logic's metronome it's hard to tell if BSP plays to the grid. Odd note slips here and there can even add the humanise factor (can be a positive thing) but to me the main problem is I mix hardware with the soft, Logic acts as a mixer and also gives me an instrument or two.
If I then play let's say Stylus RMX alongside BSP it is noticeable that BSP plays out of sync.

I got rid of Doepfer because I was greedy and wanted more steps and more control per step.
Two sequencers + drum seq was well appealing too.
Now I suffer - instant karma 

Arturia just need to fix the damn sync and a couple of stupid bugs, life would come back to normal then.