Sample and Hold stops working in Poly Mode when playing chords

[Tausendberg]

Hello,

Long story short, I got Sample and Hold to work but it will stop working in Poly Mode when chords are played.

How to replicate the problem:

Connect Triangle Wave OSC 1 output to VCA 1 Input and set VCA 1 envelope to sustain full and a little bit of release, like between 5-10 percent.

Then connect sine wave LFO to sample and hold input and connect sample and hold output to frequency modulation of the driver oscillator. Adjust the clock rate and glide low enough that you can clearly hear the sample and hold.

Set to poly mode if you hadn't already and then press and hold any three note chord. Then press and hold another three note chord and you'll notice that the sample and hold stops outputting a signal, you won't get any LFO.

Can anyone verify? Sample and Hold is quickly becoming one of my favorite effects but being unable to use it in poly mode can be quite constricting.

[LBH]

On windows 10 i can't replicate your issue.
Perhaps you have fade in or delay on your LFO?

Are you using the latest version of Modular V 3.0.3.187?

[Tausendberg]

!!!!

Oh, no, I'm not... I'm gonna have to update. I've been really busy the past few days, totally went over my head.

[Tausendberg]

Ok, I think I found the missing link to get the bug to happen.

Connect Modulation Wheel output to sample and hold, then repeat the previous steps while "oscillating" the modulation wheel and that will cause the sample and hold to stop transmitting eventually, then if you reconnect the LFO it will also stop transmitting when you repeatedly tap multiple chords.

This is a problem because I use multiple external controllers (I have three different midi pedals as well as the modulation wheel of course) and consequently this could be a significant bug in certain patches I would put together (like an expression pedal controlling Joystick 1 Y going into sample and hold).

[LBH]

Ok, I think I found the missing link to get the bug to happen.

Connect Modulation Wheel output to sample and hold,

First i have not tried this out because i would believe it perhaps can cause troubles. Controllers don't send a audio signal. Sample and hold need a audio signal to work as it's meant to. I guess you perhaps can overload the circuits if you run a controller directly into a S&H units input and perhaps that crash something in Modular V you need to correct to be able to use it.
 
You can for instance use controllers to control a LFO (a audio signal) routed to a S&H units input.  (The total amount of modulation has to be taken into account too if you use multiple modulation control sources.)

Why do you consider this a bug?

[Tausendberg]

Well, the point is, you know, we're not talking about an analog module here and it's clear that there's just no reason it has to behave this way.

Also, I think on a real modular synthesizer, the S&H module would work with controllers because controllers are made to output an electrical signal in the same range as the audio output.

Furthermore, I think it can be said to be a bug because after you plug a controller into S&H then if you plug an LFO into it, it will get the same behavior.

Point is, I don't think there's any reason sample and hold shouldn't be able to process signal from a controller.

[LBH]

I have tried it out and confirm the behavior you report. To me it seems like the effect stop when i play legato style in polymode. It all works in mono it appears.
When using portamento/ glissando in polymode you also have similar issues.
I guess some kinds of pitch confusing is occouring and that's why things like this is not possible in polymode, even if i certainly would like if it was. The issue in polymode is perhaps a restriction for certain functions and not a bug as such. But i can't tell.

I'm actually surprised that you can put a controller to the S&H input and actually use it this way at least in monomode. You can get some kind of control to the S&H effect this way and even mix it with other things.
Fine intuition of you to try this out.

In this case it looks like it don't matter as you in some way can use controls in the S&H audio input. And i am not a audio application programmer. But for instance in Reaktor there are differences in event and audio signals. I don't know if a controller is considered a event signal, but it's not a audio signal, and i can imagine that even in software coding, then the coding sometimes for various reasons has to be able to recognise the signal. Like when wanting to filter out values.  Sometimes it don't matter anyway i know.

I can say that it also to me sound like a stability thing or a coding issue if a wrong connection make the application have malfunctions, so you need to restart to get it working again. This you may can call a bug. But in this case it's hard for the application to see if it's a connection to use in poly or mono mode. A security needs to be able to see you are in polymode if the function can't work in polymode and also to see what function you use, and in that know you put a modulation controller into a audio input and whatever you put into it.
There are perhaps things to be considered even if i would like malfunctions don't happen.

Arturia could take a look at it. Especially if it's ossible to get all functions to work in polymode.

Cheers.

EDIT: Whit legato playing i allways mean playing  a note before all other notes are released. It has nothing to do with if Legato function is on or off.

[jeffbart]

@ Tausendberg I replicated your initial issue, standalone, Mac.
For me however, the second held chord continued to s&h until the first note of the first chord was released ie adding the second chord did not stop the s&h; it was releasing the first note/chord that stopped the s&h. This leads me to think it's something to do with the triggering of the s&h function commencing and ending with the first key played.
It does this with 'legato' selected or not, playing in legato fashion in polyphonic 16 voice mode, no matter what trigger source is selected  (external or internal). It feels like it picks one key only to determine when to generate the effect.

    e.g. play a two handed arpeggio'd chord, starting from the lowest note, hold the chord, then release the lowest note. The s&h stops for the remaining held notes.

The issue might be classified as 's&h stops when the first key is released'

[UPDATE] using template patch 'S and hold', poly, 3 voices, try playing a 4 note chord. It appears the 'culprit' note is not always just the first key played, it's the first voice assigned (after all voices have been used, or all freed up).