About the Main Mixer

[Patrice]

In my attempts to understand the ins and outs (sorry for the pun) of the main mixer (the one on the program page), I tried to draw a (simplified) diagram for each of the three modes.

Serial mode

In program Mode:

Out 1 >-- Pan -- Vol --                                                                       Aux Output 1/2
                                  |                                                                                  ^
Out 2 >-- Pan -- Vol --|        -- FX1 --\         -- FX2 --\          -- FX3 --\             |
                                  |-->--|            D/W---|            D/W---|            D/W---Main Vol
Out 3 >-- Pan -- Vol --|        ----------/          ---------/           ----------/             |
                                  |                                                                                  v
Out 4 >-- Pan -- Vol --                                                                          Master Level
                                                                                                                     |
                                                                                                                     v
                                                                                                           Main Output

Main Output and Aux Output 1/2 give the same signals.
No signal comes out of Aux Outputs 3/4, 5/6 nor 7/8.
                                                                                                        

In Multi Mode:

/------- Prog 1 --------\

Out 1 >-- Pan -- Vol --                                                                      Aux Output 1/2
                                  |                                                                                 ^
Out 2 >-- Pan -- Vol --|        -- FX1 --\         -- FX2 --\          -- FX3 --\             |
                                  |-->--|            D/W---|            D/W---|            D/W---Main Vol
Out 3 >-- Pan -- Vol --|        ----------/          ---------/           ----------/             |
                                  |                                                                                  v
Out 4 >-- Pan -- Vol --                                                        (MultiMixer:)    Prog1 Vol
                                                                                                                     |
                                                                                                                     v
                                                                                                           Master Level
                                                                                                                     |
                                                                                                                     v
                                                                                                           Main Output                                                                                             

and the same structure for Prog 2, Prog 3 and Prog 4, except for Aux Output 1/2 to be replaced by Output 3/4, 5/6 and 7/8 respectively.


Parallel-Pre mode

In program Mode:

                         -------Vol-----
                        |                     |
                        |---fx1--Ret1--|
Out 1 >--Pan---|                     |------------
                        |---fx2--Ret2--|              |
                        |                     |              |
                         ---fx3--Ret3--                |
                                                             |                         ---Master Level----> Main Output
Out 2 >--|      same as above       |------|------Main Vol--|
                                                             |                         ---> Aux Output 1/2
Out 3 >--|      same as above       |------|                                              
                                                             |
Out 4 >--|      same as above       |------

Remarks:
fx1...fx3 stand for the "Sent amount" knobs.
Each effect is applied between the fx and Ret knobs.


Parallel-Post mode

In program Mode:

                                ----(dry)------
                               |                   |
                               |--fx1--Ret1--|
Out 1 >--Pan--Vol--|                    |--
                               |--fx2--Ret2--|   |
                               |                   |    |
                                --fx3--Ret3--     |
                                                        |                      ---Master Level----> Main Output
Out 2 >--|     same as above     |----|---Main Vol---|
                                                        |                      --->Aux Output 1/2
Out 3 >--|     same as above     |----|
                                                        |
Out 4 >--|     same as above     |----

[rcmusic]

there two stages: you have up to 4 output mixed going to main out in program mode. BUT in Multi mode, you have up to 4 programs inside the multi, each program can have its own output (auxiliary). i don't know if i am clear 

[Patrice]

OK. That's clearer now.
I have modified the diagram to take your remark into account.

[rcmusic]

i would ad that in program mode, the OUTS refer to the OUT modules (4 per program) which are "software outs" connected to the main physical out. In multi mode, the OUTS are the PHYSICAL outs (behind the origin, the auxiliaries jack output).

[Patrice]

If this is the case, then in Multimode, you can't get Pan, Vol or FXs on the Aux Outputs?

[rcmusic]

If this is the case, then in Multimode, you can't get Pan, Vol or FXs on the Aux Outputs?

pan and fx are set in program mode . the bad side of this is that when you are in program mode, programming a patch, you may have to think (already) that you will use it in multi mode. of course you can make different version of the sound. one for the program mode and a new version, optimzed for multi in an other slot..... which leads to the fact that we have not so much save slots in the origin ;-).

One more thing is the reverb (and maybe the delay). i already discuss this with arturia. IN multi mode , each program (part of the multi) may have its reverb which is not the best thing in multi mode because you have several kind of reverb mixing themselves, a global reverb in multi would be better, i think.

[Philippe]

pan and fx are set in program mode . the bad side of this is that when you are in program mode, programming a patch, you may have to think (already) that you will use it in multi mode. of course you can make different version of the sound. one for the program mode and a new version, optimzed for multi in an other slot..... which leads to the fact that we have not so much save slots in the origin ;-).

Good point 

There may be a solution which would consist in saving the pan/fx settings as part of the MULTI instead of relying on the PROGRAM settings. So loading a MULTI would override the settings made at the program level. We'll look at this when we have more time.

[Patrice]

After some more tests, it seems now clear that the Multi Mixer concerns only the Main Output and has no effect on the Aux Outputs. So I have redrawn the diagrams to reflect this.
It is also clear that the FX do reach the Aux outputs.
So I think that the Serial Mode diagram should be rather faithful now.

As for the Parallel mode, some things are still a bit fuzzy.
There remains the control of the return values of FXs (Program page, Mixer Panel).
I placed them just after the FXs.
Aren't they redundant with Fxs levels (located on the same page)?
They seem to have the same impact on the audio effects as the Fxs levels, with the exception that they work globally on the four Out1,...,Out4 (and correspond to the three buttons of the front panel).

[rcmusic]

phil> that would be great!

Patrice> when you talk about multi mixer, are you talking about the MINI mixer in program mode (the mini mixer module) ?

[Patrice]

No, I mean the Mixer you have when you use the Multi page.
The Mini Mixers come before the Out1,...,Out4, so they do not show on the diagrams.
My aim was only to understand how signals are routed from Out1,...,Out4 to the physical outputs.