MiniLab MkII is not moving the Macro Knobs on Mini V, or CMI V

[Deepmojoman]

 . . . it is as if the Macro knob section in the Instruments don't recognized them at all.

I am thinking it has something to do with the fact that when I choose the MIDI Tab (after clicking on the Cog button, to the upper right-hand corner), I see a list of a bunch of MIDI assignments that look like they belong to the Generic MIDI Controller. But if/whenever I choose the proper MIDI Controller (MiniLab MkII), that aforementioned list-along with all it's MIDI assignments-just remains there. If I go into Analog Lab V, this does not happen, when I go into the MIDI tab there, and choose the proper MIDI Controller, this list disappears-assumedly because, having chosen the MiniLab MkII as my Controller of choice, the program reverts to the MkII's use of a pre-determined knob setup-complete with Macros-as it should.

So, I'm completely perplexed. The Macro settings work exactly as they should in Stage-73 V2 and in my demo version of Jupiter 8-V4, but no go in Mini V, nor in my demo version of CMI V.

It's very wierd. Anybody out there know of any solutions to this?

[LBH]

Hi,

I think Arturia have made a mess of things. They should just assign the same 4 midi cc to the 4 standard macros in all applications. But they have'nt. (You can change this yourself.)
Perhaps you don't wan't a Brigtness Macro. They are flexible parameters. The midi cc that's in generel is used for certain parameters should not be assigned to a macro - except perhaps 4 certain midi CCs used for generel purposes. A macro can also control multiple parameters at once, and you might wan't to rename it.

Stage 73 V2 and Jup-8 that you also mention, does have midi CC assigned. But they are in my view not the correct midi CC - because of the above.

Mini V and CMI that you mention does'nt have any midi cc assigned to the macros in the default midi config map. As said, you can assign midi cc yourself and create a new midi config map. Please read manuals about this, if you need to.
I have no Arturia controller, so i can't tell if they have a speciel internal mapping, that i don't know about.

Arturia please correct this, so the 4 standard macros in all the applications all use the same 4 undefined or generel purpose midi CCs. It should work out of the box then, by using the same 4 hardware controls using the same midi CCs.

Also keep in mind, that some of your applications also have other Macro controls. Like DX7 V in example. Those Macros should use other undefined or generel purposes midi CCs by default, but the same in the applications that have macros by original design.

[Deepmojoman]

Thank you so much for replying-I really appreciate it.

Unfortunately, the solution that you suggest does not work (although I do thank you for your very helpful insight you gave into Arturia's CC Assignment strategy (how Super-Stupid!) ).

So here's the problem: there is no dedicated procedure for assigning CC numbers to the 4 Macro choices (Brightness, Timbre, Time, Movement). There is, of course, the Learn Function which, perhaps, is what you're thinking about. But here's what happens when I try to "Teach" a knob on the screen to be controlled with one of my knobs on the MiniLab:

1. You press the Learn button. Several controls of the software instrument go purple (and some-those already assigned-go red).
2. You go over to the instrument panel, to the left, click on a knob, and . . . nothing. It won't move.

It is as if the Macro Section is just simply not receiving the CC message from the knob.

Now, here's where things get really interesting:

Some of these knobs actually ARE already connected to certain controls, albeit not in the guise of a Macro, but rather just as a 1-control-per-software-knob basis.

Example: Knob #2 on the MiniLab MkII is generally always the knob assigned to the "Brightness" Macro, but with Mini V as an example, when you turn this knob it actuates the Cutoff Frequency knob in the Filter Section. Ok-that generally wouldn't be a problem except for this fact: it's moving because Knob #2 has been assigned to move Cutoff in the MIDI Tab. It is not moving in any way because it is a part of a Macro (even though the parameter Cutoff is listed as the proper parameter for the "Brightness" Macro).

To prove my point, I just deleted the Cutoff parameter in the Brightness Macro, and gave knob #2 a twist and: the Cutoff knob in the Filter Section of the Mini V still moves! Because it's getting its command from the MIDI Assignments in the MIDI tab-not from the Macro Section. None of the 4 Macro knobs will move-ever-when you give Knob #1-#4 a twist.

So, yeah: clearly something is really messed up here, and I am asking Arturia to fix it please.

[LBH]

Your welcome.

I have just tried to midi learn a midi CC to a Macro in Mini V3, and that work fine. Are you sure you turn the hardware knobs enough?

You in a way describe something of what i mean.
Midi CC 74 is Cutoff aka Brightness. You can't assign a midi CC to more than one parameter. And you perhaps don't wan't to use the Macro as Brightness, but for something else. A macro can also control multipple parameters. So Midi CC 74 should be used for Cutoff and alike and not for a Macro, even if you can decide to do it. The Brightness macro in Mini V3 is by default set to control Cutoff.

I do hope Arturia will get a better setup by default. I think they somehow destroy the true power in their macro system, as it is.

[Deepmojoman]

Thanks for the reply. In answer to your query about whether or not I'm sure about twisting the knobs enough, the answer is yes, I'm sure of this.

I thought the most helpful way to communicate what's going on would be to do a quick screen video of what's going on, on my end. Here's a link to it, as it is mounted onto my Google Drive. You'll see the weird behavior pretty clearly, I think>

https://drive.google.com/file/d/1aZF-h9x-fY0a3tjYmPXViT9nm8SKki2w/view?usp=sharing

You in a way describe something of what i mean.
Midi CC 74 is Cutoff aka Brightness. You can't assign a midi CC to more than one parameter. And you perhaps don't wan't to use the Macro as Brightness, but for something else. A macro can also control multipple parameters.

All that is true, and I was thinking along those lines when I deleted the CC Assignment of 74 to Cutoff within the MIDI Asssignment Chart. Then I made sure Cutoff was assigned to 74 in the Macro section, and twisted the second knob. Nothing. No action whatsoever. All I did was to remove the one control that was working (the MIDI Assignment), while still gaining no control abilities within the Macro Section.

[LBH]

All you say in the video is true. That's actually the same i was facing in my first reply.

Your issue is, that there is no midi CC assigned to the Macros in Mini V3. This you also show in the video.
The Minilab knobs you turn are assigned to the controls that actually move, when you turn your Minilab knobs. The Macros are in fact not involved at all. That's why they don't move, when you turn your Minilab knobs.
Your Macros are set to control the parameters you say and show, and that's why the Macro control move the parameters it control, when you move the virtual Macros with your mouse.
What you need is to assign midi CCs to your Macros, so your controller control the Macro knobs,

What you shall do is to
1. click the MIDI tab in the sidepanel.
2. Click the LEARN button under MIDI CONFIG in the panel.
3. Click the a macro - notice it's purple - for unassigned - and the move the Minilab Knob that have the midi CC you wish to assign to the knob - and notice the purple shift to red, when it's assigned.
Now it should work.
You can save the new MIDI CONFIG. And you can export it to keep it safe.

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The problem to me, is there are certain midi CCs you never should use for Macros, but Artuia actually do so. That is waht i think they should change.
To me The midi CC74 for Cutoff and Emphasis is to me assigned correct in Mini V3. So is Midi CC71 for Resonance/ Emphasis, and having midi CC76 to control LFO rate, may also be correct, if the LFO i used for Vibrato, but actually you can't be sure the LFO is used for that in Mini V.
Have a look at this midi cc chart: https://www.midi.org/forms/midi_chart-v2.pdf - There is a generel standard chart if you scroll down the page.
The mentioned midi CCs should never be used for Macros, as Macros can be used for something else. The problem is in example, that the mentioned midi CCs in fact are used for the Macros in Jup-8 V4. That's why you see the Macros move there, when you use your Minilab knobs. The problem is, that this means the midi CCs then can't be used for the actual parameters like cutoff and so on that the midi CC is normally is assoviated with, and you might wan't to do that and use the Macros for something else, just like the Macros also can be used for other stuff that usually is'nt associated with those midi CCs. You can in Jup-8 V4 see, that in example the actual Cutoff parameter has no midi CC assigned (it's purple), as the midi CC has been used for the Brightness Macro (it's red). That's a mess.
That's why i think Arturia should change it, like i have explained.

[Deepmojoman]

OMG!! You did it!! Thank you so much.

I must admit: I did not see how the Macro knobs down to the lower right corner of the window go purple (and honestly, even now that you've alerted me to this fact, if is difficult to see-Arturia REALLY needs to fix this whole situation).

So, what I'm going to say is: this is a REALLY STUPID way for Arturia to handle all of this.

You're absolutely correct in your criticism about using certain CCs: they should be much more careful about it. At the same time: it can get very confusing attempting to figure out one's studio and to try to figure out which CCs are safe to use, which are not (because they're already used by another controller, or because they are a CC that is MIDI spec'd for a specific purpose.) I admit I've spent many an hour trying to assiduously plan out my MIDI assignments, across many different controllers, and I still am not sure that I haven't doubled up on an assignment here and there, between different units.

But, here's the thing: I have a pretty good excuse. I'm merely an End User-a mere Studio Owner. Arturia is an entire company-the supposed experts in MIDI (or they certainly should be more so than me) and they're busy putting out product that seems incomplete and ill-thought out in the usage of the MIDI Protocols.

And, you are also correct in saying that they should have explicitly mentioned this entire method of assigning Macros. I looked for an answer in the Manuals of both the Mini V3, and in Jupiter (an instrument whose Macros were not working, and an instrument whose Macros were working.) I saw no mentioning of this method you've made so simple for me to understand (thanks again!) Arturia needs to do this themselves, rather than to rely upon the expertise of users on a forum.

Finally, in gratitude for your help, I want to share with you what has become my favorite MIDI Spec sheet, that I think is quite a bit better than the standard spec sheet you shared with me (I have that one too). This one, I think, is much more intuitive, straight-forward, plain-spoken and COLOR CODED . All this has made it my go-to chart for all things MIDI, and it has made MIDI mapping MUCH easier within my whole studio.

https://drive.google.com/file/d/13j0a5XjU6oE4GPeZ6o5iKsK7vWYXNHJr/view?usp=sharing

Hope it helps you like it's helped me. Thanks again.

[LBH]

Your welcome.

Glad it worked. Thanks.

It's also a good midi chart you have posted thanks.

The right side panel and the Macros are quite new for Arturia. And things has allready been changed. Unfortunately the manual still need to be updated to show how things work now. Most of the manuals show an older way to use midi learn before the side panel was introduced. And the newest manuals also don't show how it work now.

Hopefully Arturia fix that too.
And then fix the midi CCs used for the application Macros to be the same for all applications, and let them be midi CCs that's undefined or Generel purpose parameters in the charts by default.

At least you can work with it now.

Regarding midi CCs, then remember Arturia and many other manufactors have some midi CCs reserved. Like for Expression, Sustain pedal, Mod Wheel and so on. If a midi CC is reserved, then it's one that's defined in the midi charts. That's why it can be best to use midi CCs that's undefined to do things that's not defined excact. In example a Macro one can choose too rename and not use for Brigtness at all, should not use a defined midi CC for Brightness, like Arturia unfortunately can do at the moment.
The manuals tell about the Midi CCs that's reserved. But also midi CCs that in example is used for Breath control and other hardware controls can be reserved. Actually i also think Arturias applications handle them like that, even if they dont mention it in the manuals. They also don't mention that the reserved midi CCs mentioned in all manuals actually work as they are reserved for all applications.
EDIT: I think it would be best, if Arturia used midi CCs defined for generel purposes in the charts. Both for the synth original macros and for the new Macros all Arturias applications have. EDIT END

Cheers