Midi Sync not working for me after update

[clos820]

Thank you for including a fix for this in an upcoming hotfix.  This issue may not seem obvious at first, until one try to have their MxB connected with several other synths and run into having to first send a midi start message to just the MxB to use the Arpeggiator.
I made 2 videos omne showing the difference between firmwares on MxB
https://youtu.be/wyjcguxrTv4

and the other, a comparison to other synths Arp and Sequencer operation with regards to external midi clock and midi start/stop messages.
https://youtu.be/6AZAC2ebTCE

I hope these videos make it clear on how this could impact Live jams, or any workflows that have multiple synths clocked together, and having to send midi start message would launch other sequences to run, others synths responding differently etc..so the normal behavior should be midi sync=on=lock to midi ext clock, and allow Arp and sequencer to run with pressing play button on MxB, as well as listen for start/stop midi messages.

[yeskeys]

This is INCREDIBLY inconvenient to have to get a sequencer start command inserted into my midi flow to get the MB to receive and react to midi clock.  The old behavior was exactly as it should have been... play, there's a constant clock in my configuration, and I could immediately sync my MB with the one button press.  But now as I just discovered after 2 nights of hair pulling that I need a sequencer start command to get everything rolling.  I've been around since midi day one and I've never seen this kind of paradigm.

This must be fixed ASAP. 

[clos820]

I agree 100%, should be fixed.  I opened a support ticket, I think Arturia want to here from others if this is a real show stopper. Please add a support request to fix this if you want it added to the upcoming hotfix.  I believe it makes the MxB not play well at all in a normal midi environment, with other devices that behave normally, so yes needs to be fixed. the update other than this issue is fantastic though.

[yeskeys]

The system is not allowing me to open a support ticket, it's timing out.

PLEASE ADD ME VIRTUALLY IF POSSIBLE.

thanks!~

[yeskeys]

Hi clos820... how did you downgrade your OS ?  I really like the new firmware, but this clock issue is a real show-stopper for me.  I hope it's fixed soon!
I should have the old version in my downloads directory, do I need to update (downgrade) the MCC and the synth, or can I get by with just changing the synth firmware?  (Not a big fan of this huge add-on software ball and chain)....

Thanks!

UPDATE (LITERALLY).  I figured it out.  Was simple to switch back to pre v2 without any headaches.  Here's hoping they make this a priority this time!

[clos820]

Having to downgrade to get around this issue is not cool, but I know what you mean..Its a show stopper. and yes the website has been slow responding, but it does eventually open. Please try to put in a support ticket when you can, I feel this will only make it on the hotfix list if enough people chime in.

[Enarke]

I just joined the forum. Hello.

Right now the Matrixbrute is synced to my Akai MPC Live which is running at 80 BPMs. The Matrixbrute, not so much. The MB is constantly showing 79.90 BPM.

I opened a support for this bug, and three others.

[yeskeys]

I just joined the forum. Hello.

Right now the Matrixbrute is synced to my Akai MPC Live which is running at 80 BPMs. The Matrixbrute, not so much. The MB is constantly showing 79.90 BPM.

I opened a support for this bug, and three others.

Hi Enarke - while this phenomena is quite real, I'm not quite sure that it qualifies as a "real" bug, a lot of other equipment does the exact same thing.  What's important is that the items stay synced (audibly).  If they don't, it's definitely a problem.  But the minor display discrepancy, especially if it remains constant, is seen amongst a lot of equipment that is in fact in sync.  Your ears will guide you if the two units start to drift apart after a measure or more.  In fact I have more gear that displays a discrepancy than not, even amongst gear from the same manufacturer.  I just tested - my Kronos (master clock) stable at 115 bpm is shown at 114.9 on the MB and they stay clocked/synced.  The MB actually fluctuates between 114.9 and 115.0 yet no audible artifacts. I've observed this for years with different gear, I have used midi clock and MTC for decades, being about 20 years old when MIDI made it's debut and have been in the game consistently ever since.

That's why the fact that v2 of the MB firmware doesn't adhere to behavior I've used and "counted on" for decades is such a buzz kill.  I'd love to hear from both proponents (if there are any) and detractors of the revised behavior.

What makes the v2 clock scheme even worse is that you can't turn on Midi Sync, and then use the MB's own Start sequencer button to get external clock to advance the sequencer.  You have to use a different hardware/software altogether to initiate the process whereby the MB listens to incoming clock.  Is it just me, or is this as bad of an idea that I think it is?  Sorry, just shaking my head that this got by both the programming and beta testers.  And no disrepect, I appreciate the beta team, maybe I'm just too set in my ways.  But as it stands, I have to use the pre v2 firmware, while the new features in v2 exceeded my expectations by a mile.  Here's hoping they'll switch it back, or at least have an option to choose the behavior you desire.

Thank you for listening.

[Lunatic Sound]

edit: My question was dumb.

Could you maybe provide me with your exact use case,Clos820 and Yeskeys?

Like,when exactly you run into what bugs you? Cause I would like to understand...

[Lunatic Sound]

I did read YesKeys' other post(s), but I still don't really get it. You want the sequncer to be running immediately whenever you enter SeqMode?

What happens, when you press a key then? Just transposition? And isn't starting the sequencer what the Start button is for? How do you ensure synchronicity,when you don't use a defined start command (button, key, MidiStart) to time the Sequencers start?

I cannot even find, what changed from V1 to V2.

Well, I am honestly intrigued, but at least,keep in mind the Edoardo said,he logged your troubles and tries to implement a change. Still, I would like to understand this better.
 

[yeskeys]

Hey Lunatic...!  I'll be happy to explain further and in a more cognizant post once I get a little free time.  Might help to relate it to your own equipment - what are you using if I may ask?  How are you using sync?  Don't worry, don't need a white paper on it...

thanks!

[clos820]

Hi Lunatic,

in V2 firmware, With MIDI SYNC button turned on, the MxB Arpeggiator and Sequencer now REQUIRE an external midi "start" command sent via midi in order to work. You cannot hit play on the sequencer, you cannot just hold down a key and have either the sequencer or the Arp play, nor do you have any clock tempo working until this command is received.
This is in contrast to every other synth I have encountered, and also changed from the previous firmware, it is a problem.
How it manifests itself in a a bad way:
Lets say you have a drum machine, and 4 synths all synced with midi clock master from the drum machine. Your drum machine sends midi clock to all devices, but you have it setup to NOT send midi start/stop messages because you want to be able to bring in ARPs and Sequences from all your synths manually at various parts of your song arrangement...this is a live jam..
Now you have programmed a nice drum pattern, you have created a bass line on one synth,(lets call that synth #2) in its internal sequencer. You have a verse or chorus part of your song arrangement as an ARP or sequence in your Matrix Brute(synth#3), and you are playing leads on another synth,lets call that synth #1,  and maybe you have another sequence ready to cue on that same lead synth during the bridge Finally your #4 synth maybe has an alternate percussion part you bring in at a certain part of your jam or at the end of the song, its also programmed on its on-board sequencer.
Sounds like a nice jam ready to happen right? OK so you get going, you start your song with an intro drum pattern, you start playing your lead melody intro, then after 2 bars you press play on the bass line sequencer -synth#2, so far so good...your song is going well, the audience is loving your keyboard magic...you get thru a few more verses, then you get to a part in your song arrangement where you want to bring in the Matrix Brute ARP... you notice nervously that the tempo display is blank, the tap button is flashing, so you think its ok...you build your song up to the moment the ARP is to hit, and you press the keys to play your ARP....and NOTHING! no sound from the MatrixBrute... you go into troubleshooting mode, and while still playing your song, now out of order, you menu dive in your drum machine and enable the 'SEND" midi START command...because you remember reading somewhere in the MxB forums that it now needs a midi start command to run ARPs... in your mind you know this isn't good, but you don't register the disaster about to unfold....next few verses.. get to the chorus, you hit play on your drum machine expecting to switch hands over to playing a great ARP on your MatrixBrute..and while you now can play that great ARP, its drowned out by the 3 other synths now triggered buy the start command you sent and they are playing sequences all over a part of your song that aren't suppose to be there...the sequences are loud, because you didn't expect them to playout then...your song now sounds wack, you suck...next you turn off midi sync button on your MxB and frantically stop the other synths sequences...again you try to bring in that magical MxB ARP...alas it plays...but what? its drifting...its out of sync/tempo with your beats..oh no...people are walking out of the venue....and your record contract is torn up. ok lol maybe this was my nightmare after loading V2 firmware..but yeah this isn't good and exacty what could happen lol...point is- it used to work just fine and you never had to send a midi start message for the MxB to follow external clock, to play ARPS, and you should be able to hit play on your sequence at any time, with or without external midi start message. If you are still confused...watch my two youtube videos showing the problem.. links are in previous messages in this thread.

[Lunatic Sound]

Hmm, so when I have my DAW (CuBase Pro 10) running, and then turn my Seq mode on the MxB on, it will start with a key press or the Start button as expected and in sync. I don't think, that there are any MIDI Start messages being sent, as the DAW is already running. And in my CuBase settings, "Always send MIDI start message" is set to off.

So I think I cannot reproduce your problem. Right now I am on USB MIDI. Will check MIDI via DIN5 later,as well.

 I will try it in the course of the next few hours with my MPC Live as Master and report back.

[Lunatic Sound]

Oh, and btw, I watched your videos now and they do explain it all perfectly, I just usually go on this forum on my metro commute, so I hadnt watched them before.

I wonder, if you were to send a Start MIDI msg once and then turned off all your arps and sequencers manually and brought them back in,would the Brute then work like you want it to? It is not really an option for a costant workaround, it's more, that I feel, we might be missing something here...

[Lunatic Sound]

Ok, I have now checked with my MPC and if I turn the MxB off, and then turn it back on, while the MIDI clock keeps running, it will behave like it was not receiving any clock.

I find interesting, however, that everything works fine even if Seq and MIDI Sync have both been turned off and back on again, so that means, the MxB is "remembering", that it did receiving a start command before, even it it is not syncing in the meantime... So I think this behaviour is not intended and rather an oversight on the programmers side.

When Midi Sync is off, when the first start msg gets sent, it will also not start running.

As a shitty workaround, I wanna point out that at least the seq stays in sync,when changing presets now, right? So you could start with an empty seq and change it on the fly. Janky though, I know. And it doesn't solve Clos820's problem either...

Well, thanks for explaining, guys, I wish I would have been able to help more.