Evaluating aftertouch on the Arturia Keylab 61 MKII

[JackH]

I've purchased a Keylab 61 MKII, mostly because it supports aftertouch. I may upgrade to a Keylab 88. In attempting to evaluate aftertouch for its expressivness, I have have a few questions:

1. Which presets in Analog Lab 3 incorporate aftertouch? I'm interested in acoustic instruments such piano, strings, brass, and woodwinds, especially the flute.

2. How can I edit aftertouch responsiveness in a preset?

3. Are there any links to good demos of aftertouch being used in a video on a Keylab 49/61 MKII or Keylab 88?

Thanks!

[dino@felstar.com]

Pianoteq can handle aftertouch.

If you setup a non flat aftertouch in pianoteq, as you press down on the already depressed key you can see/hear the aftertouch.

[LBH]

I've purchased a Keylab 61 MKII, mostly because it supports aftertouch. I may upgrade to a Keylab 88. In attempting to evaluate aftertouch for its expressivness, I have have a few questions:

1. Which presets in Analog Lab 3 incorporate aftertouch? I'm interested in acoustic instruments such piano, strings, brass, and woodwinds, especially the flute.

2. How can I edit aftertouch responsiveness in a preset?

3. Are there any links to good demos of aftertouch being used in a video on a Keylab 49/61 MKII or Keylab 88?

Thanks!

Hi and welcome to Arturia forums.

Sorry but are you asking someone to go thru and comment every preset in Analog Lab 3? I will not.

Aftertouch can be used by pressing down keys you play on your controller. What then happens can be so many things.

Aftertouch can be used like other modulators, by controllers that have aftertouch.
Aftertouch is implemented in different ways in the different Arturia applications.
Presets can have Aftertouch allready applied to modulate something (lots of possibilities), but the preset do not have to have it applied. You can apply it yourself.
If you only have Analog Lab, then you can't get as much control over aftertouch, as you can if you have the individual applications. In Analog Lab i think you can only decide to use aftertouch for a sound in a Multi or not.

In some applications aftertouch can be used thru a modulation matrix to different parameters. In others you have more options or other ways to apply aftertouch. It can be to one or more than one parameter. But again - aftertouch does'nt have to be applied. It's also a matter of sounddesign. Many sounds do not have aftertouch applied, unless you apply it yourself. If a sound modulate anything using aftertouch, then have  you have a controller that have aftertouch functionality to use that modulator.

If you have a real acoustic piano, then you actually does'nt have any aftertouch. For example Piano V2 does not have a modulation matrix. But Aftertouch can be applied to a parameter using MIDI learn or other ways that your DAW or other software may provide, if you wish to.

You can find Brass, Strings, Woodwinds like flutes, and many other sounds that by design allready have been applied aftertouch as a modulator for something, without you have to apply it yourself, as long as you use your controllers aftertouch functionality. If the presets is designed to use aftertouch for the things you wan't it to, i can't tell, but keep in mind, that if you own the individual applications, then you can apply parameters to be modulated by your controllers aftertouch yourself.

Aftertouch can be applied to so many parameters that it really does'nt make any sense to talk about which sounds that use aftertouch, because which parameter or parameters does aftertouch control in that specific sound, if any at all?
You may wan't it to be some kind of vibrator, some filter parameter to change the sound, volume or another articulation or expression or ......
You can use aftertouch for expressions like swells and crescendos, but also for many other things. 

The main thisng is, that Aftertouch is a modulator that can be used or not used for many things.

If you wan't full control over aftertouch, and be able to create your own articulations, then i suggest you get the full applications. But Analog Lab 3 does have sounds that is set to use aftertouch as a modulator in one way or another.

I will not do into each application and possibility to use a controllers aftertouch functionality. There is so many possibilities.

If you search for "Aftertouch" on the web, then you'll find explanations and videos about it.

[JackH]

Dino - Thanks, that's good to hear, but I don't own Pianoteq.

LBH - A big thanks for such a thorough reply. Sorry my post sounded like I wanted a review of all presets. Actually, all I'm looking for is one Analog Lab 3 preset that uses aftertouch to show off its expressiveness. That way I can begin to make some personal decision about how useful to me aftertouch actually is.

Of course I'd prefer several presets using aftertouch, for a more complete evaluation.

I also have Cubase Artist 10. Can anyone recommend some good presets in Cubase that showoff aftertouch?

[LBH]

What is good presets that show off aftertouch? What does aftertouch do in such presets?
What do you mean by showoff aftertouch?

[dino@felstar.com]

You can get a trial of pianoteq, just to see it in action

https://www.pianoteq.com/try

Pianoteq has VERY nice midi monitoring/learning

As for Arturia synths, I can't see how to get them to learn about aftertouch.

I go into midi learn mode, it sees knobs/faders just fine, but if I press down hard on a key, it sees no aftertouch.

In pianototeq you can specially map aftertouch to variable params, as well as supply an aftertouch curve (which is why I suggested getting a trial of pianoteq, just to see the UI)

Looks like an oversight maybe.

[LBH]

Analog Lab 3 does have presets that use aftertouch for different things.
It's just about pressing a key down and listen. If anything happens it's caused by using aftertouch as a modulator. If nothing happens and the used equiptment is set to be able to use aftertouch, then the preset does'nt use aftertouch as a modulator.

As for Arturia synths, I can't see how to get them to learn about aftertouch.

You can use aftertouch in different ways in Arturias applications. In Piano V2 you can use Midi Learn, in others you add aftertouch modulator thru a matrix much like in Pianotec and can't use MIDI learn because you use the matrix, and some applications can add aftertouch in other ways.
It's quite simple. Reading manuals can help. Pianotec is absolutely not simpler. You just know how to for Pianotec, and not how to for the different Arturia applications.


How does Pianotec trial presets showoff aftertouch in a whole? Does it even have presets that use aftertouch? And how for Brass, Strings, Flutes and so on, when it has none of those sounds?
I don't see any reason to download Pianotec, unless one is interested in the application.

[JackH]

Regarding what is "good presets that show off aftertouch"? This would be any instrument where an expert player frequently modulates the pitch and/or volume to produce a more expressive note and melody. Vibrato is one common example. So are swells.

Thanks Dini, I will examine Pianoteq right away!

[LBH]

Regarding what is "good presets that show off aftertouch"? This would be any instrument where an expert player frequently modulates the pitch and/or volume to produce a more expressive note and melody. Vibrato is one common example. So are swells.

Why don't you just try out the presets then? There are presets in Analog Lab 3 that does that.

But okay - I can suggest a few Analog Labs presets:

- 6-String Shamisen - Aftertouch modulate Pitch/ vibrato in DX7.

- Vangelian - Aftertouch is used to control a track modulation in Matrix 12 to modulate filter and and volume to create one a swell effect.

- EP & AfterTouchBrass - As the name say. Synclavier.

- Pitched Steps - a little differnt to show some possibilities. Synclavier.

There is so many other presets and possibilities. This is only a few.  Even the things in this presets can be done to sound differently.
I just picked some presets very fast. Perhaps you can find better examples.

[dino@felstar.com]

@LBH,

I know how to use Midi learn in Analog Lab, I don't see how to teach it to use aftertouch. I press a key with aftertouch in learning mode, no such aftertouch is detected by the learn, even though it is heard

I can hear the aftertouch in Shamisen, but how/where in the UI can I see where it is assigned?

As for pianoteq, it will show him aftertouch in action, as it has good/obvious support for it

[JackH]

Well, the merry adventures of experimentation are underway! Thanks for everyone's help.

I installed the trial version of Pianoteq Stage. I see aftertouch signals in the MIDI options. A inserted a new Global MIDI Mapping for Aftertouch, mapped to Volume, range 0 to 12 db.

It works. But there's a severe problem with the Arturia Keylab 61 keybed. You have to push down with about 5 pounds of force. This is unacceptable. I must be doing something terribly wrong.

My next step is to check the Keylab manual and see if aftertouch force is adjustable.

[LBH]

I can hear the aftertouch in Shamisen, but how/where in the UI can I see where it is assigned?

As i wrote:

If you only have Analog Lab, then you can't get as much control over aftertouch, as you can if you have the individual applications. In Analog Lab i think you can only decide to use aftertouch for a sound in a Multi or not.

This is because aftertouch is applied in each individual application.
Please refer to Analog Lab manual section "3.2.13.2. Reserved MIDI CC numbers".

You need the individual full application to see and do this. For Shamisen it's the DX7 application.
For Piano V sounds you need the full Piano V application and so on.

As for pianoteq, it will show him aftertouch in action, as it has good/obvious support for it

Yes, and it can tell how it's done in Pianotec. But what about how it's done in other applications? I explain there can be various ways to do this. And i try to say, that what aftertouch does is really much about the applications possibilities and ones imagination. So i asked what does show off aftertouch, if not what i had mentioned.
How  aftertouch is applied is not presets/ sound examples that actually use aftertouch.
But never mind. Pianotec is great, if one need it. But perhaps its not needed, when having the Piano V2. It depends.


BTW: I can also suggest the Synclavier preset Touchy Ensemble that use aftertouch for actual vibrato.


Best

You posted while i wrote.

It works. But there's a severe problem with the Arturia Keylab 61 keybed. You have to push down with about 5 pounds of force. This is unacceptable. I must be doing something terribly wrong.

My next step is to check the Keylab manual and see if aftertouch force is adjustable.

Don't know as i don't have an Arturia controller yet. It's not uncommon that it need some force, but as said, then it can also depend on the settings you have for using aftertouch - in this case including in the Pianotec application and for the different parameters you use aftertouch for.
Finding out how things work - also by reading manuals - is a good thing.

Best

[LBH]

By looking in the manual for Keylab MKII, then it look like you can
1. Select a Keyboard Aftertouch Curve - Lin/Log/Exp
2. Set a Keyboard Aftertouch minimum range - 0-127
3. Set a Keyboard Aftertouch maximum range - 0-127

So it look like you have some possiblities to try out. But as said, then i don't have an Arturia controller yet, so i can't help on this.

And beside this, then you have the applications settings.

I am interested in knowing how your experiments turns out.

[JackH]

I found nothing in the user manual for the Keylab that would help.

Then I looked at the Pianoteq manual. Page 21 describes how to set global settings. It says this can be done in the MIDI Control Center. Opening that and clicking on Device Settings, we see Keys Aftertouch hasa linear curve running from a min of 0 to a max of 127.

Page 21 also says this can be set on the keyboard. Following the instructions, I found that for pads the aftertouch min/max was correct, at 0 and 128. But for keys it's backwards. Min/max is 128 and 0. I tried to change this. Was able to change the min to zero, but the only acceptable max values are 0, 1, and 2. Changing key min/max to 0 and 2 causes Pianoteq to receive no aftertouch signals, so I changed it back to its original values.

What we've got here so far is that aftertouch on the Arturia Keylab 61 does not work acceptably, because it requires 5 pounds of force. This will soon cause damage to my fingers or the keybed.

I also have a Seaboard Rise 49. It sends aftertouch perfectly to Pianoteq, when one's finger wiggles left and right. This is useful for vibrato. Thus I don't see the problem as being in Pianoteq. This appears to be a Keylab problem.

[LBH]

The Keylab 61 MKII manual say you set the global aftertouch parameters thru Midi Control Center. According to the Keylab 61 MKII manual the settings seems to be in The Device Settings tab of Midi Control Center.