Presets saving and loading bank's troubles after update thru the Software Center

[Sam]

Hi LBH,

Yes, the previous versions of some of our synths weren't well-organised (physically on the harddisk).
We changed the folder architecture used by those synths to make it simpler in the new versions. It'll be more clear in the future, but the transition can be kinda puzzling.

About the Mini & Prophet, here's the description of the folders you found in your "ProgramData" (I forgot to tell you to show hidden files, my bad) directory.
Here and below, folders in red concerns the older versions, and the green ones the current versions.
- MiniMg V: Where the presets for the Mini V 2.5.5 (and older) were stored
- Mini V: Where the settings of the Mini V 2.5.5 (and older) standalone were stored
- Mini V2: The unique directory used by the Mini V 2.6.0 (and newer)
- Prophet-V2: The directory used by the Prophet V 2.5.3 (and older)
- Prophet V2: (I guess the 'a' in your post is a typo ?) The unique directory used by the Prophet V 2.6.0 (and newer)

In some of our synths (Mini, Modular, CS-80, ARP2600, Prophet work with the same file architecture), the presets are stored in the "save" directory.

When you installed the new Mini V version, it copied your data from the two older directories (Mini V + MiniMg V) to the new one (Mini V2). Maybe something happened during this copy that messed up your presets. To prevent this kind of issues, we decided to not delete these old directories in order to keep a security backup.

If you want to reset your presets as they were when you used the Mini V 2.5.5 (with your user presets etc.) manually, you can follow these steps:
- Make a copy of the "Mini V2/save" to keep another backup
- Delete this directory
- Copy the "MiniMg V/save" directory to "Mini V2/save"
Now if you open the Mini V 2.6.0+, you'll get your presets as they were in the 2.5.5

I'm aware this procedure is not really user-friendly and I'm sorry about that. Most of our users didn't experience troubles with their presets during their upgrade, but issues happened on a few setups (like yours). In this case we're forced to manually repair the filetree.

Now, to answer your questions:

Why all the dublets? If it is the same content in some folders, then it's bad for disk space also.
And where is my presets in those save folders? The files are named with a letter and a number. Can't tell them apart by the name.

Are there folders safe to be deleted?
Why are'nt they deleted on an update?

As I said, these dublets are a security backup for the upgrade process, in case of troubles. Some of our users are using our synths since 10+ years, we didn't want to take a huge risk by deleting their old presets which could represent a lot of work.
However, if everything went fine during the update, these folders (the ones in red) are no longer used by the new synths. They can be safely deleted (but you will not have a security backup anymore).

Is the preset's in those files - they are only 1 and 3 kb.?
If there are complete dubblets, is it then save to delete some folders, and if so - which folders are safe to delete? It also a matter of where my presets is in those folders.

Yep, the presets are stored in those files !

The only things you can do is to move / copy / delete / backup the whole "save" directory. An entire "save" directory represents all your banks / sub-banks / presets (factory + user). So, you can replace the whole "save" directory located in "ProgramData/Mini V2" by the one located in "ProgramData/MiniMg V" to restore your banks as they where in the previous Mini V versions, in the new one.
Do not try to add / edit / delete files or folders inside this "save" directory (it should mess up your presets).

I have in the window control panel also also seen that some apps are there twice. The older one say program may is removed. Why do this happend? I guess it is safe to remove the older one from the windows control panel?

Yes, it is safe to remove it. On some windows setup, the install wizard fails to detect the older version of programs and doesn't uninstall it correctly.

Will it be better to uninstall all Arturia Synth Apps, and then reinstall all?
But i guess that will delete all my own presets and all my imported ones. So i prefer not to do that unless it gives less work. A lot work
anyway, that i could do without.

I'll repeat myself (sorry about that), but I can't stress it enough:
The only thing that matters is the "save" directory. If you want to safely keep your presets, just backup it.
Then, you can uninstall, delete, reinstall, etc. This will wipe some of your settings (Audio & MIDI config for instance). But at any moment, by replacing the "save" directory with your backup, you'll get back your presets.
Do this replacement in two steps (in order to avoid directory merging):
- Delete the folder to replace
- Copy the backup folder to its new location


Sorry for that long post, I agree it isn't really simple. I hope it'll help you !
If you're not sure about the procedure, feel free to ask other questions, I'll be glad to answer it.

Kind regards

[LBH]

Hi Sam,

Thanks for reply.

Yes an "a" in prophet is a typo.

About Mg.
I have nothing in the mini V folder except a standalone settings file. Do that mean i am missing some factory presets?

Is this only bad luck? I have messed up presets on two PC installs after the latest update. Not after the first install thru the Arturia Software Center. There were the saving, export etc problem i reported. I think that's odd.

I have presets issue with several installs. Not only Mini and Prophet, they are just messed up most. At least about there is to many template bank's in other installs.

Maybe i can restore the way you tell.
I have tried on one PC with MiniMg. But not had time to go thru everything to see if it's all okay. It looks like it, but i'm not sure.
There should'nt be new presets from the new install i am now missing then?

Can you please inform me about the folders names af the newest install for all the applikations? I will have to go thru them all the way you guide on both my PC's.

By the way. I update - both download and install thru the Arturia Software Center. Do that make a difference? Is it safer to download, then close the Center, and then install from the downloaded files?
I like everything is done thru the Center.
I can also suggest that maybe it would be nice, if the downloaded files automaticly can be deleted after a install thru the center. Also remeber my suggestion about choosing a download folder. Now one can open the download folder from the Center, but one can not choose a folder to download to.



Kind regards
Lars Bo Hermansen

[LBH]

Hi again Sam,

Addition to the post above.

Some more questions.

Is it safe to remove the old save folders for older versions when all is in the newest folder?

What about future updates - do i keep all thats moveD to the latest folder? I guess so.

I guess if not deleting the old folders the same preset mess up can happen again in future updates, but can be prevented if the old folders are removed/ deleted?


Kind regards
Lars Bo Hermansen

[LBH]

Hi Sam once more, The third post after your's.


I've tried to follow your guide on Mini V on my other PC that is my main music PC.

I am sad to say, that if i follow your guide, then i miss all the old MiniMg banks, some V2 banks and all my own presets where it's only a few now.

It looks like the presets in MiniMg folder don't have them all, and there is none presets in mini V folder, only the stand alone settings file. Onlys the mini V2 folder have some presets not in the other folders, and it's hard to say how much is gone, because of the huge mess up.

This is very very bad. It's a huge mess as it is with the presets in mini V2 folder that i apparantly have to use.
Presets are stored in wrong Bank's, some are gone, and there are lot's of dubblets.
If even possible it will take days to correct. That can't be right.

This is absolutely not good.

Can you send me correct folders with all factory files for all apps? Maybe that will work for a great deal and save me lot's of work.

Is there no way, where i on the preset storage files can see what it contains? Wish there where. It's like working in the blind this way. Could be easier to organize, if presets where stored by there names in there named subfolders.

I am really sad, and a little mad about this mess up.
Don't know where to begin. And impossible to use the Arturia apps like it is. 


Best

[LBH]

Hi again Sam,


Addition for the post above.


I have tried to rescue some sounds of my own in Mini V that has not vanished. I have unfortunately lost 20-30 presets of my own no matter what.

At a time i wanted to save a edited preset of my own to replace the one i had edited. Then i found out, that it do not overwrite as it should but make another preset with an odd name. So the preset troubles are not solved.

Some thoughts. How do you want a customer like me to pay for a V- Collection 4 with all this foults - and that in a few days before a speciel offer expire, that by the way is'nt that speciel price seeing the price for v-collection 4 and thinking of the price payed for v-collection 3?
As it is now it is hard to trust Arturia software - and  use it in productions as things apparantly is'nt safe.

Another question is why don't Arturia have a upgrade price all the time? Why only limited time?
Anyway - as it is i am not happy about Arturia to buy anything even if eg both Solina and Matrix maybe could be nice to have, when they maybe work at a time.
Maybe more testing should have been done before the release of the new updates and products.
It kills creativity as it is now, as to much technical stuff don't work like it should.

Even a reinstall of the old apps can't save the situation.


Happy New Year

[LBH]

One more addition,

Still Only working with Mini V so this is about Mini V, but it maybe the same in other apps.
It is also not possible to rename Bank's SubBank's and presets. New preset are just added with odd names when trying to rename.

It's absolytely not good enough. Rather useless. A pain to try to work with.

[LBH]

One More addition to posts above -


Hi Again Sam

A Thought.

Maybe with some issues it would be better to uninstall all Arturia appps and clean it all out from the windows registration database, and then reinstall the latest apps?
I can't save my lost presets anyway, but maybe it's better?
If so then maybe if Arturia can give me an xtra xtra speciel offer for the Arturia collection 4, i maybe will install that one and see if i can clean up. And then hopefully Arturia will have solved all issues very soon, so one can work with the products in confidense.

But in case do the Arturia Apps uninstall programs erase every trace from windows registration database?
And as i will have to delete the hidden files you gave path to with preset's an so on to clean all, is there then an uninstall tool to erase the traces from those files too?

It looks like something is very wrong, and it seems to vari.

By the way. I have posted for some issues about Solina and Matrix presets in analog lab in that forum. There are unfortunately many issues with your apps.


Best

[Sam]

Hello LBH,

Sorry for the delay, I was on vacation.
I'll try to answer all your questions in this post.

I have nothing in the mini V folder except a standalone settings file. Do that mean i am missing some factory presets?

This is normal, this old directory only contained the standalone settings file. The factory presets are stored among the user ones inside a "save" directory.

Is this only bad luck? I have messed up presets on two PC installs after the latest update. Not after the first install thru the Arturia Software Center. There were the saving, export etc problem i reported. I think that's odd.

I couldn't say it's only bad luck. But I don't understand why this issue happens to you, on two different setups, while it seems to affect only a few users (we had a very low amount of reports of this kind). Concerning the export / saving issue, the last release should have fixed them.

There should'nt be new presets from the new install i am now missing then?

No, we didn't add presets for those synths in the VC4

Can you please inform me about the folders names af the newest install for all the applikations? I will have to go thru them all the way you guide on both my PC's.

Yes of course, here's the list (softs included in the VC4, directories located in C:\ProgramData\Arturia):
- Analog Lab
- ARP 2600 V2
- CS-80 V2
- Jupiter-8 V2
- Matrix-12 V
- Mini V2
- Modular V2
- Oberheim SEM V
- Prophet V2
- Solina V
- Spark
- Vox V
- Wurlitzer V

By the way. I update - both download and install thru the Arturia Software Center. Do that make a difference? Is it safer to download, then close the Center, and then install from the downloaded files?
I like everything is done thru the Center.
I can also suggest that maybe it would be nice, if the downloaded files automaticly can be deleted after a install thru the center. Also remeber my suggestion about choosing a download folder. Now one can open the download folder from the Center, but one can not choose a folder to download to.

No, it won't make a difference.
I spoke with the Arturia Software Center devteam, your two ideas (automatic cleaning & choosing the download directory) are now added to their feature requests list !

Is it safe to remove the old save folders for older versions when all is in the newest folder?

Yes, the old folders are not used anymore by the new synths versions. They're only keeped in a backup purpose, but they can be safely deleted.

I guess if not deleting the old folders the same preset mess up can happen again in future updates, but can be prevented if the old folders are removed/ deleted?

You guessed right

I've tried to follow your guide on Mini V on my other PC that is my main music PC.

I am sad to say, that if i follow your guide, then i miss all the old MiniMg banks, some V2 banks and all my own presets where it's only a few now.

It looks like the presets in MiniMg folder don't have them all, and there is none presets in mini V folder, only the stand alone settings file. Onlys the mini V2 folder have some presets not in the other folders, and it's hard to say how much is gone, because of the huge mess up.

This is very very bad. It's a huge mess as it is with the presets in mini V2 folder that i apparantly have to use.
Presets are stored in wrong Bank's, some are gone, and there are lot's of dubblets.
If even possible it will take days to correct. That can't be right.

This is absolutely not good.

Can you send me correct folders with all factory files for all apps? Maybe that will work for a great deal and save me lot's of work.

If you replaced the "save" folder located in "Mini V2" by the one located in "MiniMg V" (by deleting the one in "Mini V2" first), you get your banks as they were in the previous version of the Mini V. So, if it's still messed up, maybe it was corrupted in the previous version. I'm sorry about this, I understand this is not acceptable for you.
Are you sure you deleted the "Mini V2/save" folder, then copied the "MiniMg V/save" folder, then pasted it in "Mini V2", in this order ? Sorry about asking again, but if so, that means that the "MiniMg V/save" folder was corrupted before the installation of the new version, and I hope it's not the case.

Is there no way, where i on the preset storage files can see what it contains? Wish there where. It's like working in the blind this way. Could be easier to organize, if presets where stored by there names in there named subfolders.

No, it's impossible to see what those files contains. I agree it's hard to work with this system, it relies on a old dev design. Though, we're planning to upgrade the preset management in the newer versions of those synths.

I have tried to rescue some sounds of my own in Mini V that has not vanished. I have unfortunately lost 20-30 presets of my own no matter what.

At a time i wanted to save a edited preset of my own to replace the one i had edited. Then i found out, that it do not overwrite as it should but make another preset with an odd name. So the preset troubles are not solved.

One more addition,

Still Only working with Mini V so this is about Mini V, but it maybe the same in other apps.
It is also not possible to rename Bank's SubBank's and presets. New preset are just added with odd names when trying to rename.

I think everything is related to your corrupted "save" folder. For everyone else, seeing the feedbacks, those issues have been fixed.

Some thoughts. How do you want a customer like me to pay for a V- Collection 4 with all this foults - and that in a few days before a speciel offer expire, that by the way is'nt that speciel price seeing the price for v-collection 4 and thinking of the price payed for v-collection 3?
As it is now it is hard to trust Arturia software - and  use it in productions as things apparantly is'nt safe.

Another question is why don't Arturia have a upgrade price all the time? Why only limited time?
Anyway - as it is i am not happy about Arturia to buy anything even if eg both Solina and Matrix maybe could be nice to have, when they maybe work at a time.
Maybe more testing should have been done before the release of the new updates and products.
It kills creativity as it is now, as to much technical stuff don't work like it should.

I understand your point of view, but I'm not part of the sales department. I suggest you to get in touch with them (sales-inquiry@arturia.com) !

Maybe with some issues it would be better to uninstall all Arturia appps and clean it all out from the windows registration database, and then reinstall the latest apps?
I can't save my lost presets anyway, but maybe it's better?

If you want to install a clean version of the Mini V (for instance), you can do it by following this. Be careful, as you guessed it will delete ALL your user presets. It will install the Mini V from scratch, as if you just installed it for the first time.
- Uninstall the Mini V from the windows install/uninstall manager
- Delete all the directories about the Mini V in the ProgramData folder (Mini V, MiniMg V, Mini V2)
- Install the Mini V2 from the ASC

I wish you an happy new year, I hope we'll find a solution soon for your issues.

Kind regards

[LBH]

Hi Sam,


Yes i know it has been a holliday. Did'nt expect answers before this week.

If you replaced the "save" folder located in "Mini V2" by the one located in "MiniMg V" (by deleting the one in "Mini V2" first), you get your banks as they were in the previous version of the Mini V. So, if it's still messed up, maybe it was corrupted in the previous version. I'm sorry about this, I understand this is not acceptable for you.
Are you sure you deleted the "Mini V2/save" folder, then copied the "MiniMg V/save" folder, then pasted it in "Mini V2", in this order ? Sorry about asking again, but if so, that means that the "MiniMg V/save" folder was corrupted before the installation of the new version, and I hope it's not the case.

I'm sure. I even made a backup that i still have before deleting anything. Nothing in the old miniMg folder in the back up either.

I think everything is related to your corrupted "save" folder. For everyone else, seeing the feedbacks, those issues have been fixed.

I can imagine that is the issue. I have the same felling.
I have seen your reinstall guide too.
The question is if a reinstall like that will delete all that's corrupted in the windows registry database? You say it does?
As i wrote, then i can't save lost presets. The rest of my presets i have in saved banks. But do you think those bank's is corrupted too? In that case i will have lost many preset's. That will be very bad.

Thanks for all your answers.
I also hope everything will be solved very soon.
I will contact sale and point at this thread.


Kind regards

[Sam]

Hi !

The question is if a reinstall like that will delete all that's corrupted in the windows registry database? You say it does?

Yes it will, you'll start with a fresh install.

As i wrote, then i can't save lost presets. The rest of my presets i have in saved banks. But do you think those bank's is corrupted too? In that case i will have lost many preset's. That will be very bad.

For now, I think your "save" folder is somehow corrupted, but I don't think it's related to external saved banks (*.minibank files).

I suggest you to try these steps :
- Keep somewhere the backup you talked about in your previous post, it could be useful in the future. Don't delete it.
- Make a fresh reinstall of the Mini as I described in my previous post
- Try to import one of your *.minibank file to check everything is ok

Regards

[LBH]

Hi Sam,

The reason i ask about if all traces in windows registry database is deleted, is that many programs is not deleted completely just using windows uninstall. There are still traces. And i worry about if left traces still will mess things up in new install. But i assume your say, that the left traces if some are left do not influence a new install, and will not cause mess up again.
An uninstaller program/ tool could move all traces if windows uninstall don't, if created to do so. Some
manufactures do have such a tool.

I will try to reinstall. That would have been my move too. Maybe i'll wait untill sales has replied. But you will be informed in this thread.
You do not have to reply this post, unless you have new info about the uninstall/ reinstall.

I can also inform, that i almost never have install issues with anything.
I did'nt have any install troubles the first time i installed v-collection 3. It has worked. Some updates has caused the errors i have reported, and actually it was the latest install only that showed the sign of mess up. When i install i allways take care and read on the screen, also to make sure the paths is correct.
I don't think it's my two machines or my install procedure that has caused all this. My machines work fine with all other stuff i have - including other music software programs. I take care of my machines in all ways. I have educated in multimedia and i have done programming enough to have some insight in what is going on. Sometimes one do not think in the moment and can't see the what's right at your nose, but i'm am not a total beginner, and as a rule i allways find solutions to a problem at some point. But somethings like eg software just has to work, as it's tools.

Kind regards

[LBH]

Hi Sam,


I have now spend several hours on my music PC. I still need to do everything again on my Laptop.

I hope it will work know. I will report here if i find something still wrong. Read in the end of this post about analog lab.

I have reinstalled everything.

I have lost presets of my own in Mini V as i've told you.

Now i can tell i also have lost a Bank of my own Prophet presets.
It turned out that several exported banks also was corrupted. I was able to recover some banks of my own presets in SEM, Modular and Prophet by removing some odd named num files in the back-up of the old presets files by deleting the odd names and move folders to the reinstalled location. Then the banks appeared in the app, and i could export them, delete the bank and import again, as i couldn't with the corrupted banks.
I took time as i did'nt know where the presets where located in the old banks. I started after the number folders there are banks in the installed app when installed.
The Banks i had to recover where possible crashed the apps whem trying to import.

I can tell that now there are only one folder for each app in programData Arturia path.


By the way: I had forgot to tell i always do back-up of everything an my PC's on a regular basis.
As it turn's out, i managed to find an older back-up og the programData. In that bach-up there was a miniMg folder with preset in it.
Somehow the install that messed up, has also removed the preset's in that folder.
And as i said, somehow the new updates unfortunately also managed to corrupt some exported banks.




Another thing. Analog Lab has just been updated in the Arturia Software Center.
I've downloaded it and installed. But the problem about skipping nodes as i've reported in the Analog Lab forum has not been fixed. The Matrix sound still skip nodes. Sometimes not at once, but then after a while, maybe after changing sounds too. It Vari.
Will you please report to Arturia developers about this, as it make the Matrix sounds useless. As it's 2 notes of 12 that skips, maybe it's because analog lab is not set to manage 12 nodes but only 10 like the CS-80 can do, but i don't now. Ther's a problem anyway.
I have'nt tested if other reported stuff regarding Analog Lab has been fixed yet.

As it looks now  with the sale, Arturia's buisness policy and all the technical problems it do not look like i can buy v-collection 4.
One of the issues is that Arturia wan't people to buy unfinished stuff blindfolded, and that in a hurry if it has to be promotion price.
Another is the work i've had to put into this. Also as a software tester with detailed reporting.

But thanks for your replies Sam. If looking at it a little positive way, then, i have learned something, as problems allways do when solving them.

Maybe i report further when testing more or when reinstalled om my laptop.


Kind Regards

[LBH]

Hi Sam,

Addition to Post above.

Installed on Laptop too now. I could copy folders from my music PC to the laptop.
But I have reinstalled trying to be sure of a clean install.
Hopefully that's enough.

Please keep the things i mentioned in my last post in mind.

I can also add, that downloding the new Analog Lab gave error messages both times. The install confirmation file are not downloaded.
But the program seems to be downloaded as i could install the app from there and not thru the downloadcenter.
Actually i have made all the new reinstalls from the downloaded app and not installed thru the Center.


Kind regards