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Author Topic: Origin as a general DSP host for 3rd party plugs  (Read 8665 times)

MrModern

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Origin as a general DSP host for 3rd party plugs
« on: September 02, 2007, 11:55:24 pm »
I think Origin as priced is too expensive for the rather limited instruments (models of other original hardware) it provides. Personally, I think Arturia should be thinking of opening up the processing power to other developers. Certainly, mixing and mastering plugs at the very least. I feel sure they would sell a ton more units as a semi-open architecture.

MrModern

slammah2012

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Re: Origin as a general DSP host for 3rd party plugs
« Reply #1 on: September 03, 2007, 01:57:18 am »
Quote from: "MrModern"
I think Origin as priced is too expensive for the rather limited instruments (models of other original hardware) it provides. Personally, I think Arturia should be thinking of opening up the processing power to other developers. Certainly, mixing and mastering plugs at the very least. I feel sure they would sell a ton more units as a semi-open architecture.

MrModern

Missed er Completely Modern......
Are you implying a Standalone polyphonic Aftertouch capable CS80 Virtual.... is a limited instrument.???..it has 2x the polyphony of the original and 200x the memory allocations....
I digress..... ( does anyone else think the mini Mg, Mg Modular, Arp2600, CS80, Prophet, and a "new" Origin modular format which integrates these gems together... all detatched from a Computer sluggish CPU, With a full control surface, deserve this type of Dissrespect given  a  "Muse Receptor" costs virtually the same without a controll surface, ingenuity,without a keyboard, without any software,and only 2 outputs???
Mg is selling a mono synth right now at half the price....
When I bought my first Mini Mg($500), my Yamaha CS80 rang in at $8,000.00.....with 16 oscillators and 4 user presets....

Maybe you will like John Bowen's Solaris at the same price....or a Korg M3 with Radias plugin.......

If you decide you want both worlds, may I suggest Neko OpenSynth....
There you will have your 2 worlds(Arturia/Receptor) at a higher expence mind you....

But if it is all about the moolah........may I invite you to Climb back on your M Audio Rocket ship to Future world.....
There you may expect to find all of these marvels at a great discount.......

semtek

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Re: Origin as a general DSP host for 3rd party plugs
« Reply #2 on: September 03, 2007, 02:55:53 am »
Quote from: "slammah2012"
Quote from: "MrModern"

Missed er Completely Modern......
Are you implying a Standalone polyphonic Aftertouch capable CS80 Virtual.... is a limited instrument.???..it has 2x the polyphony of the original and 200x the memory allocations....
I digress..... ( does anyone else think the mini Mg, Mg Modular, Arp2600, CS80, Prophet, and a "new" Origin modular format which integrates these gems together... all detatched from a Computer sluggish CPU, With a full control surface, deserve this type of Dissrespect given  a  "Muse Receptor" costs virtually the same without a controll surface, ingenuity,without a keyboard, without any software,and only 2 outputs???
Mg is selling a mono synth right now at half the price....
When I bought my first Mini Mg($500), my Yamaha CS80 rang in at $8,000.00.....with 16 oscillators and 4 user presets....

Maybe you will like John Bowen's Solaris at the same price....or a Korg M3 with Radias plugin.......

If you decide you want both worlds, may I suggest Neko OpenSynth....
There you will have your 2 worlds(Arturia/Receptor) at a higher expence mind you....

But if it is all about the moolah........may I invite you to Climb back on your M Audio Rocket ship to Future world.....
There you may expect to find all of these marvels at a great discount.......


Slammah, stop being such a fan boy. Mr Modern has a great point in some respects. Though it would be difficult to design a synth which accomodates existing 3rd party vsts, and attempts to do so so far have proved convoluted, opening up the architecture would be a great move.

If companies could develop, eg, individual modules which could be bought via download for the origin I for one would be much more inclined to buy it.

I love some of arturia's synths. The problem has been though that they don't develop them past a certain point. I own the Mg modular, and I would have been happy to pay something to get version 2 because it improved on a good starting point for a synth. If arturia had continued to tweak it, and it were on version 4 or 5 by now, it would be a great synth. As it is the glitches and bugs still remain, and there are better products on the market today, with better filters (which don't step), better oscillators, and more flexible routings.

My concern with origin is that it will be left behind in favour of newer products. If the architecture were open, and 3rd parties could develop their own individual filters, oscillators and so on, it would be a real powerhouse and I'd buy it on sight.

Creamware, Tc electronic and Digi have all achieved similar feats, so why not Arturia?

I'd love to be able to buy the Origin knowing that, eg Access, Waldorf, DSI etc etc were going to develop their own Origin modules. I'd happpily pay good money for them. Limiters and compressors? Mastering plugs? Perhaps these don't excite me because they can be added inside the host daw already and for live use they're of limited significance. But the prospect of extra filters, oscillators, ring mods, distortion fx - definitely.

Let's hope Arturia see the sense in this. Origin looks like a great interface for live performance.

MrModern

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Origin as a general DSP host for 3rd party plugs
« Reply #3 on: September 03, 2007, 06:23:50 am »
Slammah, it's exactly because of instruments such as the upcoming Solaris that I question the value of the Origin. I don't doubt that Bowen's instrument will retain it's value far into the future compared with the Origin. And will offer pretty spectacular sound.

But hey, I wouldn't bother to have an opinion if I didn't find the Origin appealing in so many ways.

Cheers.[/quote]

slammah2012

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Re: Origin as a general DSP host for 3rd party plugs
« Reply #4 on: September 03, 2007, 08:35:33 am »
Quote from: "semtek"
Quote from: "slammah2012"
Quote from: "MrModern"

Missed er Completely Modern......
Are you implying a Standalone polyphonic Aftertouch capable CS80 Virtual.... is a limited instrument.???..it has 2x the polyphony of the original and 200x the memory allocations....
I digress..... ( does anyone else think the mini Mg, Mg Modular, Arp2600, CS80, Prophet, and a "new" Origin modular format which integrates these gems together... all detatched from a Computer sluggish CPU, With a full control surface, deserve this type of Dissrespect given  a  "Muse Receptor" costs virtually the same without a controll surface, ingenuity,without a keyboard, without any software,and only 2 outputs???
Mg is selling a mono synth right now at half the price....
When I bought my first Mini Mg($500), my Yamaha CS80 rang in at $8,000.00.....with 16 oscillators and 4 user presets....

Maybe you will like John Bowen's Solaris at the same price....or a Korg M3 with Radias plugin.......

If you decide you want both worlds, may I suggest Neko OpenSynth....
There you will have your 2 worlds(Arturia/Receptor) at a higher expence mind you....

But if it is all about the moolah........may I invite you to Climb back on your M Audio Rocket ship to Future world.....
There you may expect to find all of these marvels at a great discount.......


Slammah, stop being such a fan boy. Mr Modern has a great point in some respects. Though it would be difficult to design a synth which accomodates existing 3rd party vsts, and attempts to do so so far have proved convoluted, opening up the architecture would be a great move.

If companies could develop, eg, individual modules which could be bought via download for the origin I for one would be much more inclined to buy it.

I love some of arturia's synths. The problem has been though that they don't develop them past a certain point. I own the Mg modular, and I would have been happy to pay something to get version 2 because it improved on a good starting point for a synth. If arturia had continued to tweak it, and it were on version 4 or 5 by now, it would be a great synth. As it is the glitches and bugs still remain, and there are better products on the market today, with better filters (which don't step), better oscillators, and more flexible routings.

My concern with origin is that it will be left behind in favour of newer products. If the architecture were open, and 3rd parties could develop their own individual filters, oscillators and so on, it would be a real powerhouse and I'd buy it on sight.

Creamware, Tc electronic and Digi have all achieved similar feats, so why not Arturia?

I'd love to be able to buy the Origin knowing that, eg Access, Waldorf, DSI etc etc were going to develop their own Origin modules. I'd happpily pay good money for them. Limiters and compressors? Mastering plugs? Perhaps these don't excite me because they can be added inside the host daw already and for live use they're of limited significance. But the prospect of extra filters, oscillators, ring mods, distortion fx - definitely.

Let's hope Arturia see the sense in this. Origin looks like a great interface for live performance.


I already brought this up to Arturia about the possible integration of third party software, but  wouldnt that start to bring in the need for the different licencing can of worms that these 3rd parties adopt???
The Origin will not need licencing for the onboard Arturian Software....
It is an open Code system by the way as I have been told...but it is not Hard drive based
The Muse Receptor does allow for third party software , but you have to prove the licencing before you can obtain the Muse code...and Ilok for the Dongle system...

 I would be thrilled to have A.A.S. Tassman/String Studio on a live kit like the Origin, along with Modartt Pianoteq.....,
That will take a Colaboration on behalf of all parties....
Kudos

here is a bit of previous dialogue

Quote from: "slammah2012"



It is a real toss up....The Receptor only has 2 outputs and 2 inputs...and you have to purchase licences for software
to convert Synths you already own into muse versions....
I would love if the Origin could adopt 3rd party software like String Studio and PianoTeq onto its platform...
perhaps a future consideration Arturia?

The Muse has ADAT optical out, but only uses 2 of the 8 ADAT channels...All mixing of 16 instruments is done internally...
for full sound manipulation, hook up mouse keyboard and Monitor as the 4 front knobs aren't  enough to grab and tweak...
And I can not find any info on Muse and its polyphony....
The Origin is 32 voice...Both can be interfaced with the Computer

The origin keyboard definately has more control features
and comes with the Software loaded...



The Origin Keyboard  has 10 outputs and 2 inputs, Ribbon,5 octave Aftertouch Keybed,
 Joystick/ control knob surface and 5 inch colour screen...and you get All the Arturia Softsynths
 on board in a modular form
Price: $3499


Receptor Pro : Receptor PRO has almost five times more hard disk space than a
standard Receptor and a processor that is 33% faster than the base model......
Price: $2,899.00
(Monitor,Control surface/mouse/qwertykeys/5 octave keyboard and software not included...)


Quote from: "Vincent T"
wow  :shock:
thx for the promotion!


Quote from: "slammah2012"
This was more of a comparison....
I declare the Origin the winner in my opinion.....

It would be nice if third party SW could run on it as in the Muse piece,with all those origin  "outputs" available, but I "believe" the Origin is not "Hard drive"equipped....is it???

nudge nudge.....Are the 8 Origin outputs "L/R  outs" for each of the 4 instruments and the main out a mix of these with Master FX??? wink wink


Quote from: "Vincent T"
Quote
It would be nice if third party SW could run on it as in the Muse piece,with all those origin "outputs" available...


Actually it won't be possible, as Origin is not a plugin host...

Quote
but I "believe" the Origin is not "Hard drive"equipped....is it???


you're right...

Quote
nudge nudge.....Are the 8 Origin outputs "L/R outs" for each of the 4 instruments and the main out a mix of these with Master FX??? wink wink


right again!  :)

jmctag

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Origin as a general DSP host for 3rd party plugs
« Reply #5 on: September 03, 2007, 12:53:26 pm »
+1 for 3rd party DEVS

semtek

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Origin as a general DSP host for 3rd party plugs
« Reply #6 on: September 03, 2007, 07:59:58 pm »
I can see that the authorization/copy protection might provide an obstacle to third party development. However, given that the arturia units are hardware based each should have it's own machine id. Hence it should be possible to sell authorizations which will only work on a specific Origin. This is how powercore works.

Once again, I just hope that arturia adopt this approach. It's a shame that there are more and more proprietary hardware platforms, eg creamware, powercore, uad, duende... and less collaboration between the different companies.

If all the devs stuck their heads together they might make faster progress.

MrModern

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Origin as a general DSP host for 3rd party plugs
« Reply #7 on: September 03, 2007, 08:49:36 pm »
Although the Origin isn't at this time a plug-in host, that's the enhancement I was suggesting be implemented. Or rather, the plug-in can be hosted elsewhere and the required processing can be offloaded to the Origin somehow. Arturia shouldn't have to worry about licensing issues per se. They could simply sell a dev kit to interested parties and let them take care of licensing issues. Such an approach is not necessarily to develop a different sort of revenue stream, but to add value to a hardware product whose price point is already set and charging for an SDK to simply offset dev costs.

I don't know if the Origin harware as currently configured can in any way support these enhancements, but it would be a shame not to try to take advantage of available megaflops.

semtek

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Origin as a general DSP host for 3rd party plugs
« Reply #8 on: September 04, 2007, 02:10:02 am »
I disagree, the most effective copy protection solution involves embedding the license on the host machine. This way there's no complicated dongle or cd procedure, and all the add ons can be done online.

Anyway, this from the John Bowen Solaris website:

"However, now that SonicCore has acquired rights to the Creamware dsp library, I will be able to incorporate their special modules as well in Solaris. I'm also discussing licensing other algorithm work for future dsp expansion packs. It's my plan to have the Solaris act as a capable 'host system' for a wide variety of synthesis types, while still providing an ease-of-use factor.""

I'm going to save my money for this one, shame the interface isn't as portable though.

Vincent T

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Origin as a general DSP host for 3rd party plugs
« Reply #9 on: September 04, 2007, 09:15:33 am »
Quote
They could simply sell a dev kit to interested parties and let them take care of licensing issues. Such an approach is not necessarily to develop a different sort of revenue stream, but to add value to a hardware product whose price point is already set and charging for an SDK to simply offset dev costs.


I would be extremely difficult to have a simple SDK, because of the structure of the device (and a nightmare for developers, to :) )
Vincent
DSP Arturia

 

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