Wrong scaling on 4K monitor in Windows

[moix]

I'm using Windows 10 with Ableton Live 10 and a 4K monitor with scaling enabled.

When opening Pigments by default it opens at the right size but with very low resolution. Text is all blurry. See this comparing the native text rendering of Ableton Live vs the text on Pigments



When disabling "auto scale plugin" on Ableton Live Pigments opens like this:



Are you working on fixing this bug?

[LBH]

What have you set Pigments scale to in Pigments Resize Window menu?

[moix]

It doesn't matter. Changing the value makes things bigger and smaller but everything renders at the same DPI.

If disabling the auto scaling option on Ableton Live, the window always appears cropped.

[LBH]

So if you in example disable Ableton Live auto scaling for the plugin, and then scale the plugin using Pigments Resize option, then you you can't get it to work? Have you tried?
Pigments resize option add more pixels to Pigments.

How does pigments resize option work for you in standalone mode with 4K resolution on your graphic card?

[moix]

Yes, when disabling the "auto scaling" option in Ableton Live the plugin always appears cropped. Changing the window size parameter in Pigments doesn't fix that, it only makes the cropped portion bigger or smaller.

This is Pigments at 200%:



When opening Pigments in stand alone mode (on its own host) it does seems to render at 1:1 pixels so when setting the window size to 200% it appears as expected.

U-He, Fabfilter, Valhalla, etc, have no problem with this in Live. When disabling "auto scaling" in Live they simply take control of the plugin window, render at 1:1 and resizing works as expected.

[LBH]

The way i see it, then Pigments actually Scale correct, but Ableton lives plugin Windows for some reason does'nt follow the plugin.

I don't use Ableton Live. I can't tell if there is a setting for this.
Perhaps there is info on Ableton help sites or in Ableton forum about this.

I suggest you contact Ableton support and Arturia support too, if you can't find a setting for this.

[moix]

The way i see it, then Pigments actually Scale correct

Even disregarding the crop problem Pigments is rendering the pixels at dobule the DPI of the monitor, so no, Pigments has bug.

but Ableton lives plugin Windows for some reason does'nt follow the plugin

When disabling the "auto scale" setting then Pigments should be in control of the window. Like I said, other plugins have no trouble with that (U-He, Fabfilter, Valhalla, etc).

I suggest you contact Ableton support and Arturia support too, if you can't find a setting for this.

I thought this was the support forum for Arturia. Anyway this is clearly a bug on Arturia's end and will contact support.

[LBH]

window, render at 1:1 and resizing works as expected.

Even disregarding the crop problem Pigments is rendering the pixels at dobule the DPI of the monitor

The last qoute is inside Ableton Live you say.
Can you please explain this size difference, if your Ableton Live DAW application actually is set to and act in 4K?

Pigments use the same ressources for the standalone and the plugins. So the size you see in standalone mode, should be the same in your DAW - i believe. It should not be fully sharp, if it was scaled to twice 4K. So it look like some kind of scaling or resolution change is going on inside your DAW.

Unfortunately i can't test. I don't have and use 4k and high resolution settings.

I can't tell if this is a Ableton, a Arturia issue or even a user issue. There are not enough informations and facts to tell so. I think you jump to conclusions.
I still suggest you ask both Ableton and Arturia support, if you need support.

[moix]

Can you please explain this size difference, if your Ableton Live DAW application actually is set to and act in 4K?

I cannot explain why this happens but if you look at the first screenshot I posted this is clearly visible. Pigments is rendering huge pixels compared to Live, other plugins, or even any other Windows application.

Again, U-He, Fabfilter, etc, have no problem with this. Here you can see a U-He synth vs Pigments. See how sharp text is in the Fabfilter plugin and how huge the pixels are in Pigments.

Pigments use the same ressources for the standalone and the plugins.

It doesn't. The stand alone version is acting as its own vst host. It also has midi and audio options not present when using Pigments as a plugin.

So the size you see in standalone mode, should be the same in your DAW - i believe.

Well if it was the same size and DPI there would be no problem at all.

So it look like some kind of scaling or resolution change is going on inside your DAW.

Once you disable the "auto scale" option in the DAW then the plugin is responsible for managing its window size, resolution, and DPI. Again, only Pigments presents this problem.

I contacted support yesterday.

[LBH]

Pigments use the same ressources for the standalone and the plugins.

It doesn't. The stand alone version is acting as its own vst host. It also has midi and audio options not present when using Pigments as a plugin.

Pigments does'nt have one set of graphics for the standalone version and another for the plugin. Please look in the programData folder. There are 5 folders with different sizes of graphics.
The Pigments folder in Program Files that include 3 files including both the program and an uninstaller is only 6,10 MB. The bitmap folder with the graphics in ProgramData is 5 times that size alone.
Also the standalone and the plugin version in example use the same presets, samples and some settings. Do you also claim there are 2 sets of all that?
If you in example resize Pigments in standalone mode, then it open in this same size setting in your plugin and vice versa. Such data are shared.


It's good you have contacted support.
I hope you get your issue solved no matter what it is.


EDIT: Accidently found this: https://www.fabfilter.com/forum/3417/hidpi-in-ableton-live-10-win10-with-os-150-scaling?replies=2 - Apparantly a Live update fixed an issue for a fabfilter plugin, while another vendors plugin worked all the time. So hard to tell where where the culprit is.EDIT END

[Michael_G]

Have you tried to deactivate Ableton's DPI scaling in Windows ?

Ableton properties > compatibility > change high DPI settings > in the "High DPI scaling override" menu, check "Override high DPI scaling behaviour" and choose "Application".

I got the same problem on a HD display and that solves it.

[r95]

Ableton properties > compatibility > change high DPI settings > in the "High DPI scaling override" menu, check "Override high DPI scaling behaviour" and choose "Application".
 

This solves the problem indeed but I would be better if Pigments had the right behaviour by default (like all other High-DPI compatible plugins have)

[detuned]

Hey! Is this solved somehow? I have the same problem, only with Pigments..