1.5 released

[bg]

The voice card trimmer panel is nicely done.  I would only mention that it might be better to have zero in the center of the trimmer's range so that a card can be tuned above or below reference.  The workaround for this currently is to turn the master tuning pot slightly flat.

Actually trimmers don't have a 0 point  :wink:  anyway there is a reset function to "tune" them all prefectly
****
It's not a big deal, I realize, but the voice card tuning control popup values are 0% to 1%.  If 0%="A440" then the detuning range can only be sharp of the reference.  Typically, you'd want some cards tuned sharp of reference and other cards flat of reference.  If you want, say, card #1 to be at reference pitch and you want card #2 to be slightly flat, you have to set card #1 trimmer to 0.5%.  All I'm saying is it would seem logical that the trimmers have a +/- range (like on the Mod Matrix), with 0% (perfect tuning) in the middle.

[RB]

OK, I installed the 1.5 update and now many of my patches sound very different than before.  The closest sound I had so far to the famous Vangelis synth-horn sound is now WAY off.  But even the default sound, the "Thin Depth" sound is quite different.  

I thought maybe these differences were due to the new ring mod or chorus, but I've gone through and turned the ring mod and chorus settings all the way off and there's still no change significant enough to explain the "before 1.5" and "after 1.5" difference I'm hearing.  Yet many other patches sound like they did before.

I appreciate that the chorus & ring mod may work truer to the original (and the fine tuning is a welcome option), but if I can't get this figured out I'm going to have to revert back to version 1.2...

I installed the update having the CD in the drive of course, so I believe I've followed the proper procedure.

What am I doing wrong?  Can anyone help?

Thanks,

Rob

[omissis]

Hi
Too bad your Vangelis horn has gone but don't worry...I'm sure it wasn't made of two detuned oscs!!!

I thought maybe these differences were due to the new ring mod or chorus, but I've gone through and turned the ring mod and chorus settings all the way off and there's still no change significant enough to explain the "before 1.5" and "after 1.5" difference I'm hearing. Yet many other patches sound like they did before.

The differences are in the pure timbre : the sawtooth sounds more present on higher frequencies, the Chorus circuit has nailed the original ( besides a little lack that will be filled ASAP ) the ringmod is basically the same in its behaviour...The point is you didn't have to  notice a big difference between the version 1.2 and 1.5...in that case something would have been wrong made :roll: ; IMO CS-80V needs more of a "fine tuning" of all sections by now, seen that all the basic things are there,by now it's a work of "enhance this, soften that" rather than a complete re-design....as I said with too noticeable changes you won't end up with a CS-80 anymore, you would happen to have another synth ,but not a CS-80
 :wink:

[RB]

Well I'm still a bit confused...If only the sounds I modified or made now sounded different, then I'd assume I'd done something strange or wrong.  But when some of the Arturia factory patches also sound different, ie. "Thin Depth", then it must be something else.  

And if the sawtooth wave is now going to sound increased, and thus change the tone of any patch with a saw wave in it, then I'd expect a lot more posts from people saying their patches now sound too different.  But all I see for the most part are people praising the 1.5 changes.  I actually liked the tone of many of the original Arturia sounds, and I don't have the time or desire to go through and try to edit each changed sound in 1.5 to get the tone of pre-1.5; I'm not anywhere near expert enough with synth sound design.

So are other people hearing these major differences too?  You said you didn't have to notice a big difference between 1.2 and 1.5, so this doesn't sound like everyone has had some of their favorite sounds "ruined" or changed too much for their taste.

Thanks,

Rob

[poropat]

OK, I installed the 1.5 update and now many of my patches sound very different than before.  The closest sound I had so far to the famous Vangelis synth-horn sound is now WAY off.  

I needed to change my patches too, but I feel it's normal.
Then, to get the most of benefits from CS80V, it's good to
work with 96Khz/24bits.
About Vangelis Horn , need to consider he did this with a
CS80 but through a lot of effects too, maybe difficult to
get it with a pure CS80V.
I think if you train on 1.5 and get the right reflexes,
then you'll like it much. :lol:

[RB]

OK, so at least I know that other people are experiencing this as well.

As for the Vangelis horn sound, I know other effects were involved, but I had a decent approximation of it until 1.5.  :-(  

I don't mean to be bashing people on this--I was looking forward to the 1.5 upgrade, and I know many people have worked very hard on this upgrade.  So it pains me to be complaining about 1.5.  But I sure didn't expect a large chunk of my patches to suddenly sound drastically different with this upgrade.  In previous upgrades, there weren't such drastic changes in the sounds.

And like I said, I don't have the skill to go through and "correct" the sounds that changed, and recreate the earlier versions of those sounds.

Thanks for letting me know I'm not the only one affected by this.  I'm open to any suggestions people may have on keeping 1.5 but also restoring the tone of the previous patches.

Thanks,

Rob

[poropat]

In fact we need to consider we have a different synth now.

Me, for example I attempted to recreate vangelis horn too
with 1.1 and 1.2, and I got a not so bad result, but at the same time
I was not satisfied 100%. Then when I installed 1.5 this sound
became worse. Then I tried to use some other ways to improve it,
and now I'm more happy than with the 1.2.

I think if we try to setup a real CS80 in the same way as
the CS80V result won't be the same too, need to adapt.
It take some time of course to resetup patches, but it's a
price to pay for we could believe we have a CS80 at home. :lol:

[omissis]

Vangelis horn : the sound consists of a BRASS2 preset and Chorus
BTW : the Chorus has a very flanging sound so it sounds like two detuned oscs....Xavier built the Chorus by nailing the same exactly components: the only thing missing is the modeling of a feedback in the chorus circuit which would let out the flanging effect for this blessed Vangelis sound...unfortunately there wasn't enough time for this update to get feedback done, as it is hard to model without aliasing....anyway don't be frightened...it will surely be on next version...

[poropat]

yes, my patch use only 1 synth line, so it's not 2 osc detuned,
and seems near the same settings as brass2.
And I seem get a best result using tremolo instead of the actual chorus.

[RB]

My Vangelis horn sound used Glen Darcey's Bladehorn patch (thank you Glen!! I'd have been completely lost without that patch!) as the foundation.  Later on, I had heard that the famous horn sound was BRASS1 + BRASS2.  I believe I had the mix between osc1 & osc2 heavily favoring osc2, but I'm not 100% sure (can't check now, don't have the CS-80V on this computer).  I had tweaked a few parameters to taste. Then I had aftertouch doing some brightness & level swells.

Anyway, with 1.5 it doesn't sound right. That's when I started messing with the chorus & ring mod (things I knew had been changed), and even cranked them all to 0 or off, and still the sound coming out was very different in character than with pre-1.5.

I agree, it almost seems like we have 2 different synths now, but instead of being able to enjoy the sounds from both at once, we'll have to choose, either 1.2 or 1.5.  :cry:

[omissis]

Hi Rob

It was me who stated the Vangelis sound was coming from BRASS1+BRASS2 , but I was wrong.
That sound comes from Chorus , I realised it by listening to this file


http://www.rlmusic.co.uk/mals_site/mp3s/cs80_700.mp3

listen carefully and let me know!

[RoyOrbisonCS-80]

Omissis, this is your friend, Tommy!

I had a listen to the RL mp3. It was absolutely LUSH.  Truly stunning, sonically. Thanks for posting the link.
I've listened to it several times now.
I don't know if you mean the CS-80's internal chorus or an outboard one, but I honestly don't hear a trace of the CS's chorus.  :shock:  There are some beats occuring due to Ring Modulation and Sub osc. vibrato, but it doesn't have (for my money) THAT chorus. Perhaps the two oscillators producing that fatness, yes, but...I'll write the folks in Reading and see if they remember what effects were used. I know there's a ton of reverb, which to me helps to make it sound more like the Vangelis sound.

Just my 2 euros worth.
ROCS-80

[omissis]

Tommy!!!
The RL file had the lead sound chorused, it's it! I realised it when after the rmodulated part, the third note is aftertouched on vibrato : you can hear a variation in the phasing effect on the wave during this vibrato while, if you try to make it with two detuned vcos you can't do it...give it a try!
I'm pretty sure this is the internal Chorus and you can verify by yourself, set low speed and high depth , let AT do a mid vibrato and select a BRASS or a STRING preset :wink:

[RoyOrbisonCS-80]

Caro Max,
I hate to burst your chorus bubble, but I heard back from Richard Lawson about the mp3 he recorded and he explained the phenomenon of beats you heard with a not so surprising answer (The variance in tuned oscillators/M cards). Here's a copy of our communique:

-----Original Message-----
From: Tommy [ROCS-80]
Sent: 10 June 2005 08:55
To: rlmusic@btopenworld.com
Subject: CS-80_700. mp3

Hello, some of us were discussing the above mentioned mp3 on the Arturia forum for the CS-80V, and wondered if you were involved in the recording of that file?
I'm from the States, and I have both the V and a "REAL" CS-80, which was first owned by Roy Orbison.
If you were involved in the recording, can you recall if the Chorus switch was engaged at all during that recording?   I may be surprised...perhaps the chorus was on very minimally...but frankly, I don't hear that warped sound so characteristic of the inboard chorus.

I've enjoyed your website!  I noticed the contact name from synthrestore.co.uk as an old acquaintance of mine when I used to live in Bedford in the 90's. I knew Adrian Dolente when he was playing in a local band called Custard!

Hope to hear from you,
Tommy

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

----- Original Message -----
From: rlmusic
To: Tommy
Sent: Friday, June 10, 2005 9:03 AM
Subject: RE: CS-80_700. mp3

HI Tommy

Thanks for your email.

I wrote and recorded the short song specifically for my website.  There was NO on-board Chorus used, only reverb and some delay from outboard gear.  The power of the Brass setting and the minor offset of the oscillator tuning/tracking on individual keys will produce some interesting characteristics which only a monster analog synth like the CS80 can deliver (as you well know) and this might be confused with some chorusing, etc.

I’m glad you like my website – some great instruments and I would keep them all if I could.

I’ll mention to Adrian when we next speak that you got in touch…small world!

All the best.

Richard Lawson
www.rlmusic.co.uk
Tel: +44 (0) 1189 472474
Mobile: +44 (0) 7986 470853
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Kent Spong also states he didn't use the inboard chorus on his track either, but used the Dimension D and a Quadraverb for effects.
 :roll:
Can we still be amici?

Tommy

[omissis]

Can we still be amici?

Tommy

Ma certo, ci mancherebbe altro !!!!  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:  :wink:

( for those non Italian speaking : of course we can !!!!! )