Arturia Forums
Hardware Sequencers => BeatStep => BeatStep - Technical Questions - FAQ => Topic started by: phimeis on April 14, 2014, 09:08:02 am
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Please teach about Knob encoder acceleration setting.
I can not setting knob encoder acceleration(Slow, Medium, Fast) by Midi control center.
It is not reflected on DAW even if it sets by Midi control center.
My DAW environment is below.
Live9, Windows 7
This problem looks like the following video.
http://www.youtube.com/embed/_N7NyknCEpM
In other midi controller(Korg nanopad, etc), does not have this problem.
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Same issue here, I can set the acceleration in Midi Control Center, changing preset shows the value of the global setting changing, but the knobs still respond as in slow mode. I have latest version of the software and firmware! Behaviour is consistent whatever hardware I use (wether PC or iPad)
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Same here!
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Same problem here :(
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We are aware of this issue and are working on a solution right now.
Next version is comming soon
:)
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Is that "mini brute firmware update" soon, or actual soon?
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The same 'soon' as the fix for same knob problem with the Minilab, soon over a year ago.......
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The same 'soon' as the fix for same knob problem with the Minilab, soon over a year ago.......
To be fair they revised the Minilab board and updated analog lab and analog lab works well for me
My minilab has a hardware issue I couldn't be bothered to send it back so I kept it used it still but retired it down to buying a mininova and no longer have desk space
AHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHHH!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
DAMM YOU TO DAMMNATION AUDIO COMPANYS WITH YOUR DESKTOPS WHERE CAN I PUT IT ALL ?
I was offered to return it and have it replaced promptly by the support team
The software is the most interesting part and for the price its unbeatable and im sure there still updating and will be another release soon
Enough derailing this Beatstep thread
Maybe goon you should have returned it or forget about it and spent your time making music as this seems futile no one understands the problem
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I have replaced it already with a Korg Taktile which will be here this very week. The idea behind these products is good, but the implementaion and support is truly awful..
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Given there have been some problems with quite slow updates in the past, can someone from Arturia be a bit more specific about when this will be fixed? It would be really helpful. thanks.
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me too. unclear if how when they will udpate bugs or add new features. sending it back tmrrw
:(
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I have also Problems using the Knobs for making Music
I can not use it in Bitwig Ableton Traktor for Live Edits ???
::)
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Why did Arturia release Beatstep despite of its problem ?
The control center 'obviously' has the function which changes knob encoder acceleration,
so they should check if it worked correctly before factory shipments.
I think we're allowed to return this product for a full refund
because this is the fatal defect in the quality control.
Arturia & Dav1d ,
you have to clarify when you will fix this bug here as soon as posible.
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Dear Arturia Staff!
I have the same issue with the knob acceleration on my beatstep. I ve just read the arturia beatstep manual (section 5.3.3).
Your manual confirms that the control knob acceleration on the arturia beatstep (which i purchased) is fully working:
"With this parameter you are able to try three different response curves for the encoders and see which one works best for you".
Since i payed for the product ,(at least) i would like to know exactly when the update will come to fix this problem.
Thanks dr.yp
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I just wanted to echo these comments. Arturia/Dav1d, can you please comment on when this will be fixed? Also, will "Fast" mean 1 full turn of the knob = 0-127, or will it take more turns? Will we have any option to customize this? Half the reason I purchased the Beatstep was for the knobs. If everything functioned properly then the Beatstep with its pads and knobs is amazing, but if the knobs can't be used for any usable live control or for usable automation writing (other than usable but super slow control with little hitches when you have to flip your hand around to keep turning the knob) then I have to return the product.
Dav1d, can you let us know? I'll gladly keep the Beatstep if it functions as intended. But if there is no answer on this soon then I'll have to return it. I was so enamored with it until I assigned the knobs to a filter cutoff...
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maybe ...
this bug is due to the critical mistake of hardware design?
if so, i guess there is no way to fix it...
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Any word when this will be fixed? I bought one last week and was absolutely dumbfounded when I discovered this bug. Really well-built device, but that bug is unacceptable. Fix this shit.
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Same problem here :-( Please fix.
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Arturia is probably too busy working on Spark instead of Beatstep....
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PLZ FIX IT!!!!
I feel like an idiot, turn the knob 10 times to make a crossfade in Traktor!
do arturia have the same problem with Sparkle?
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Don't know, what I meant was their focus is probably on Spark instead of Beatstep.
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Not that anyone here cares, but I hope the people at Arturia do.
I returned the Beatstep about a week ago. I thought it was going to solve a lot of on the go problems for me, but while the pads are awesome, the knob value thing is just terrible and a deal killer. If you fix that issue and the gave the ability to program step velocity then I'd be back.
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I've emailed Tech-Support about this. Got a reply saying the firmware update will be ready in about 3 weeks.
So, Arturia, this is your chance to show you're on it!
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Same problem. Waiting to hear from Tech support. How embarrassing for them. To release a midi controller and the knobs don't work.
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Tech support said you can change the setting in the software. Obviously not everyone there is clued it to the problem I was going to buy a MiniLab, but no way now!
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I hope they get it right. It should work that in sequence mode the knobs should be in slow mode so you can go one note at a time. When switching to controller mode they should be set to fast. I highly doubt they will get it right though.
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v. poor, very disappointed and most likely selling at a loss soon as a result.
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Yeah, the BeatStep is very disappointing. Mine is eBay bound as well. I just wish the Behringer X-Touch Mini was out. Looks to be a proper controller. I'll be getting one for sure.
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Hi all,
BeatStep will be updated very soon and knob acceleration is one of the main fix !
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Hi, trying my beatstep for the first time.
Can't wait for the update, this way knobs are not very useful in controller mode.
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And another week goes by...
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Its coming soon we are testing at the moment ;)
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Why not have a bunch of users help out testing betas? I offered my help to speed up the process but didn't get any response.
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fingers crossed...
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Knobs still not working like they should. When you turn them slow you have to turn the knob several times to go from 0 to 127. If you turn them fast they go to 127 in a jiffy...
Or is this "normal" behaviour?
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Sigh... Yeah, the knobs still don't function properly. Too slow, then too fast. It should be a nice steady turn. Why even have this so called 'knob acceleration"? I'm dumbfounded. It's unusable. I tried doing a simply filter sweep on a plugin and I just got incredibly frustrated. After a while I went to my Maschine and put it in controller mode and BAM! Now THAT"S what a controller knob SHOULD feel like. Nice and smooth with a simple, natural single turn of the wrist to go from 0-127. It was like going from a Kia to a Ferrari. Sorry Arturia, but you've really dropped the ball on this piece of gear.
Dear Arturia,
In order for this to be a proper controller, knob acceleration should default to Fast (Off) when in controller mode. A setting you would need to implement. This setting should allow you to go from 0-127 with a single turn of the wrist. When in sequence mode it should switch to Slow (Off) to allow note selection. This of course would take working on both the hardware and software and rethinking the whole concept. The acceleration thing is a joke.
Okay, I'm done. I've wasted enough of my life on this thing. It had such potential. Ebay bound...
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Today I bought the Beatstep from Arturia and the Launch Control from Novation because I wanted to see which is best for me.
First thing: The Beatstep stinks totally chemic. Puhhh.
The second and really worst thing is: The Knobs are soooo slow. Totally unusable to dj with this. (I´m on the latest firmware).
Very sad. This thing sadly have to go back in the next few days if there aren´t another update (I have 30 days give back guarantee). So please release an update asap to make this knobs faster!
Thank you!
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How do you like the Novation? Do the knobs work like a normal controller?
Today I bought the Beatstep from Arturia and the Launch Control from Novation because I wanted to see which is best for me.
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So. Day two and a little bit more relaxed and wiser.
I updated to the latest firmware and now the encoders are faster.
My personal problem with the Beatstep is, that the encoders are rastered. So it is to rough to control the encoders for example the "Filter" or Equalizer in some DJ software. For this, the Novation Launch Control is far better.
But I think I will keep the Beatstep. I really like the Sequencer in Ableton.
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With the new firmware, I find the knob acceleration is fine. Certainly fast enough and accurate enough for controlling fx plug-ins in Ableton.
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With the new firmware, I find the knob acceleration is fine. Certainly fast enough and accurate enough for controlling fx plug-ins in Ableton.
You do not experience any of the problems described earlier??
If not this could indicate a faulty batch of beatstep hardware...
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I have only used the BeatStep with the latest firmware - I will have to spend some time testing the different knob acceleration speeds to see what difference they make.
With it set to fast they are perfectly useable.
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I installed the Firmware update and it works better!!THANKS!
I hape this is not the last fix
it is ok to modulate sound in a fast acceleration setting...BUT
IT IS NOT FAST ENOUGH TO USE IT for LIVE performance or live Automation Recording!!!
Arturia, do you have someone in your developer team, who is a DJ or live performer? Is someone testing this?
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...BUT
IT IS NOT FAST ENOUGH TO USE IT for LIVE performance or live Automation Recording!!!
Same issues here!
Is it so difficult to understand what and how can be solved this problem?
I wonder if it's clear how disturbing this could be, don't get me wrong, it's amazing to have this kind of gear at this price but there are certain basic functions that must work at least at a standard level.
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Even after the update this is still pretty rubbish....who on earth thought of implementing this?
I have a physical knob on the Beatstep. All I want to do is physically turn it from a 7 o'clock to 5 o'clock position in a single motion and have it move the knob on the softynth accordingly, as a mirror of my physical motion. This should be the default motion and acceleration etc should be an option. Bear in mind this is with Arturia products ARP2600 and Oberheim.
Seriously, politely and with all respect, is anyone at Arturia actually physically using/testing these beyond a simple twiddle to check they work ie checking things are actually physically and ergonomically practical and useful in the real world and across a range of products including their own? I don't want to whip a knob around just to accelerate it to do a one-turn 0-127, or do multiple stop/starts as I keep turning and turning the damned thing.... I want to do a single turn of my hand/wrist over 2 bars.
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Seriously, politely and with all respect, is anyone at Arturia actually physically using/testing these beyond a simple twiddle to check they work ie checking things are actually physically and ergonomically practical and useful in the real world and across a range of products including their own? I don't want to whip a knob around just to accelerate it to do a one-turn 0-127, or do multiple stop/starts as I keep turning and turning the damned thing.... I want to do a single turn of my hand/wrist over 2 bars.
AMEN!
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HI, whe way the knob accelerator works is if you turn the knob slowly you get a fine control and if you turn it fast you can get from 7 to 5 o'clock in one turn.
im not a programmer but i get this is a logarithmic control .
and if they make it even quicker the fine control would suffer.
lets wait and see what next when the next firmware out.
regards
terrym
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Right, and when will that be? My Beatstep has been unusable for months now.
If I treated my customers like this I'd be fresh out of business!
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Sorry Terry, and again with all respect you don't have to be a programmer to know this sucks as it is. It's a physical controller and should be able to respond as analogous to the (Arturia) softsynth it's controlling. I have a nearly 10-yr old cheap Novation ReMote 25 that does it just fine, it's not rocket science. This part of Beatstep is basically torturous trying to use as it is and I'm looking at other controller options now, this is all packed up and heading to auction tonight. Was a nice idea but 'let's see what happens next ' is too vague time-wise (again) and poor customer relations to my ears. Thanks for trying though.
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Seriously, politely and with all respect, is anyone at Arturia actually physically using/testing these beyond a simple twiddle to check they work ie checking things are actually physically and ergonomically practical and useful in the real world and across a range of products including their own? I don't want to whip a knob around just to accelerate it to do a one-turn 0-127, or do multiple stop/starts as I keep turning and turning the damned thing.... I want to do a single turn of my hand/wrist over 2 bars.
Oh man i cant use this m...f Stepper for my live set. it is unusablke for months.
I have a great respect for the Ideas of your Products, but i think u should test your products from a live performer.
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one last try before it goes, back from holiday and auction pics taken...has anything been done about the knob movement? I'd love to have 16 knobs that actually reflected, well....the movement of the knob
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Nope, got rid of mine last weekend.
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Thanks SR, what a shame and what a waste of money :-[
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5 to 7 linear.....
wtp?
::)
i do not understand.... ???
this is not a rocket!
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http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/2243/beatstep-speeddialer (http://www.maxforlive.com/library/device/2243/beatstep-speeddialer)
Max patch for Knobs encoder setting for Ableton Live
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So Arturia! Be reasonable !!!
Tell us, is there a solution? or you are preparing it? I am VJ an also can't use your devise normal !!!
It's a shame.
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I was minutes away from pulling the trigger on the BeatStep on Amazon, when I found out about the know acceleration problem from the Amazon user reviews. The posts here are all over a month old. Can anyone tell me from personal experience how well the encoders are currently working for them... or should I just steer clear? Thanks
-D.
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FW 1.1.0.0 - The usability of the encoders are awful! There are three possible reasons.
First: The software who reads the encoder don't do it right. (software fix is possible)
Second: The electronic circuit is bad designed. (maybe a limited software fix is possible)
Third: The encoders are bad and cheap. (same as second)
The actual acceleration algorithm makes it more worse. One big help gives visual feedback and no acceleration setting. I use the MIDI Monitor feature from the mutable-instruments MIDIpal ( http://mutable-instruments.net/midipal (http://mutable-instruments.net/midipal)) on the midi out to visualize some of the changes. This works nice but not in the important situations. It's nearly impossible to change a note precisely if a sequence is running.
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Hey Beatsteppers. I’ve found a solution to the Beatstep’s encoder problems that works to my own satisfaction. I’ll describe it in general and if anyone wants more details I can provide a more thorough explanation upon request. It does not require Max for Live, only two free MIDI utilities for Windows. So we all know that with the encoders in Slow mode, it takes way too many turns to sweep through the range of any parameter in Ableton, but the acceleration modes are super jumpy and unpredictable, rendering them useless. So all I was looking for was a way to multiply the single increment per detent to something like 2 or 3. Yes, this means that not every single value from 0-127 can be dialed in via the encoder, but for my purposes, half or a third of that resolution is sufficient. To accomplish this, you need to install Bome’s Midi Translator Classic Edition (which is nagware until you sent the developer a postcard!!!) and get it to translate the CC message coming from the Beatstep. In Relative 1 mode, the encoders send a value of 63 for each decrease and 65 for each increase, so you have to translate those values to something like 58 and 70 respectively to make the adjusted parameter change by increments of ~3. This means for 8 encoders you have to set up 16 translations because you have to account for each direction of rotation. Since the free version of Bome’s does not provide a virtual MIDI port with which to route its output to Ableton, I also used another utility called loopMIDI which receives the translated messages from Bome’s and can be selected in Ableton as an input port. Ableton’s encoder mode has to be set to Relative(linBinOffset) to respond correctly. Also, in Bome’s you have to have MIDI Thru checked and in Ableton you only accept input from the loopMIDI port, don't take input from the untranslated Beatstep and don’t output anything to the loopMIDI port. What’s great about this, for my purposes anyway, is that I like to use the Beatstep with a UserConfiguration.txt script in Ableton for ‘blue hand’ automatic mapping and a few other things, and this all works in conjunction with the translated encoder messages for better encoder response in the whole Ableton environment. This doesn’t affect Beatstep’s sequencer mode, so the encoders still move the note one up or down per detent. If you’ve used virtual MIDI ports before and are familiar working with Ableton’s MIDI settings, then this description is probably enough, but if you want more details I can expand on things or provide screenshots. Happy encoder-ing!
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still no response or new firmware from Arturia since last year ? Or "buy the Beatstep PRO" is their mplicit answer ?
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Dear Arturia, any updates on this issue?
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It's a shame, really...We are on the official forum, this been a bug for months, and no one is answering...
>:(
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It's a disgrace, I will never buy any of their products again.
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FYI this is exactly how the encoders work on the Beatstep Pro. Went back and watched the official video (https://youtu.be/K1nQlFIonNw?t=117) and noticed that there are some interesting cuts when the guy was using the encoders for filter sweeps. Hmmm.
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I haven't tried this yet, but if you're looking for a way to go from 0 to 127 fairly easily and you're just controlling a VST, this plugin could help.
http://www.thepiz.org/plugins/?p=midiCurve
You could essentially add one node and place it at x: 64, y:127 and that will essentially half the amount of twisting it takes to get to 127. Change x value to individual taste!
Not gonna help for controlling external hardware, but it's a workaround until (IF) Arturia fixes this behavior!
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A similar solution for Linux (as the one described on Windows, using Midi Virtual ports etc) is this:
- install qmidiroute
- open qmidiroute
- If you use KXStudio w/ JACK or their repos (Recommended), use Catia (or qjackctl if you don't have Catia) to map arturia Midi out -> qmidiroute in (otherwise, on ALSA, use aconnect -i and -o options on terminal)
- on qmidiroute, add a Map
- change input type for "controller", value from "95" to "127"
Set your desired DAW / Software / etc to use qmidimapper out (again, using Carla or qjackctl or aconnect) and you're good to go.
Same caveats apply - you lose some fine-resolution (again, you are diminishing the knob resolution at a 1/4 via software to do a full circle, so by just 1 slight knob tap you jump 4 CC changes.)
Would be so much better to have the real deal... oh my.
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This issue has been unsolved yet. My environment is below:
OSX Firmware1.2.0.3 MCC1.2.2.429 (Mode/Control Option/Absolute Channel/Global)
ABLETON LIVE 9 (Control Surface/none MIDI/input none MIDI/output none)
When I assign parameters(Live,AU) on the encoders, some encoder action is incorrect.
Actually, Knob2 action has include following problems:
・When i right turning the knob,the parameters swing to left turning suddenly
・Acceleration speed faster than another knob(resolution is too rough)
I tried to change mode to NRPN/RPN of MCC and absolute to Relative 1,2,3. However, hasn't been resolved.
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Arturia still not solved this issue???
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So this still seems to be an issue.
I was expecting the rotary encoder to be a 1:1 ratio. That is, turn the knob one revolution and it would go 0 to 127. Instead it appears to take two full revolutions to turn the knob. I don't want "acceleration", I want to be able to set the turn ratio for a full set of values.
I know this is an old thread, but come on, people have been asking for this fix for years now.
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So this still seems to be an issue.
I was expecting the rotary encoder to be a 1:1 ratio. That is, turn the knob one revolution and it would go 0 to 127. Instead it appears to take two full revolutions to turn the knob. I don't want "acceleration", I want to be able to set the turn ratio for a full set of values.
I know this is an old thread, but come on, people have been asking for this fix for years now.
I have the same problem, did you find a solution?
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Still a problem in April 2020.
On the first page of this post, the Arturia support guy said they were working on a solution... in 2014.
Best solution I found was in a Max For Live device:
https://maxforlive.com/library/device/2243/beatstep-speeddialer
But who wants to re-map a M4L device every time? And what if you are using multiple M4L devices on top of this work-around? The combination/layers of M4L logic do not always work and need to be reconfigured.
Ive seen that the KeyStep has a solution for 1:1 correlation between physical knob turn and software knob. How the encoders are different is unknown to the consumer.
Nobody wants "knob acceleration". Its unpredictable. Sometimes you want to quickly move a knob 20%. You dont want that quick movement to become a random value between 20 and 100%. Setting the acceleration to "slow" makes that 20% move something like 5-10% which absolutely nobody ever wanted.
Its sad because there is no other device with this many pads/knobs in this small of a footprint.
What a wasted opportunity. What kind of damage has this done to their reputation for the last 6 years?
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Arturia support wrote back with a suggestion to use a middleman between Beatstep and Ableton called Bome Midi.
Léo (Arturia Support)
Apr 9, 14:50 CEST
Hi Jason,
I'm sorry for the inconvenience,
In case the behavior observed is the same across all the encoders and if the actual behavior isn't reaching your expectations, you should be able to try the workaround suggested below by one of our users which may help improve things:
The main cause of the behaviors may be related to the acceleration mode defined, however when using the slow mode, it may require many turns to browse through the whole data range.
Applying a multiplier per step could help even if this would consequently not allow you browsing all the values (so may not apply to all the situations depending on your needs). If you'd like to give it a try, please follow the steps below:
- Install Bome’s Midi Translator Classic Edition (Shareware) and get it to translate the CC message coming from the Beatstep.
- In Relative 1 mode, the encoders send a value of 63 for each decrease and 65 for each increase, so you have to translate those values to something like 58 and 70 respectively to make the adjusted parameter change by increments of ~3.
- This means for 8 encoders you have to set up 16 translations because you have to take into account each direction of rotation.
Since the free version of Bome’s does not provide a virtual MIDI port with which to route its output to your DAW, you may have to use another utility called loopMIDI which receives the translated messages from Bome’s and can be selected in your DAW as an input port.
- Ableton’s encoder mode has to be set to Relative(linBinOffset) to respond correctly.
- Also, in Bome’s you have to check the MIDI Thru option and in your DAW, make sure to only accept input from the loopMIDI port, don't take input from the untranslated Beatstep and don’t output anything to the loopMIDI port.
This won't affect Beatstep’s sequencer mode, so the encoders still move the note one up or down per step (Main reason which explains why the Beatstep uses Stepped encoders which doesn't have any display as well).
Please let me know if this works on your end,
Looking forward to hearing from you,
Kind regards.
Léo - Arturia Support
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Here is some other information I think others might find useful:
here are my observations of the encoder behaviors when Beatstep is set to "slow"
Arturia Beatstep and Ableton Midi macro knob mapping conditions
Absolute: stuck in a small value range in the middle
Relative (signed bit): backwards.
Clockwise = slowly downwards
Counter-Clockwise = quickly upwards
Relative (bin offset): slow in both directions
Relative (2's Comp.): Backwards and velocity sensetive
Clockwise speed = slowly downwards
Counter-Clockwise = quickly upwards
Relative (Signed Bit 2): Slow up, quickly down
Absolute 14 bit (must be CC 95 or lower)*****
Relative (lin. Signed Bit): backwards.
Clockwise = slowly downwards
Counter-Clockwise = quickly upwards
Relative (lin. BinOffset): Slow in both directions. Seems to have some velocity built in.
Relative (lin. 2's Comp.): Backwards and quick in both directions. 5 total positions/values.
Relative (lin.Signed Bit 2): Slow up, quickly down
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The best M4L workarounds Ive found are
Multimapper32 which allows you to set curves on macro knobs
https://maxforlive.com/lib.../device/2348/multimapper32audio
and the easiest version Ive found is Beatstep Speed dialer which allows for multiplication of the encoders movement
https://maxforlive.com/.../device/2243/beatstep-speeddialer
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I revive this topic that is almost ten years old asking if this problem (the malfunctioning of the encoders in the Beastep) has a solution in the proprietary software. I need to use my Beastep as a driver for some Ipad apps, and in this condition it is unusable. I have read this old Topico and there was no coherent answer from Arturia as far as it ends. Is there any solution as of today?