Arturia Forums
Hardware Sequencers => KeyStep Pro => KeyStep Pro - General Discussions => Topic started by: artao on May 07, 2021, 09:15:34 am
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First off, thank you for the update. 8)
Took awhile, but there's certainly some good stuff in there. (Stop promoting it as a 'free' update tho. It seems petty to point that out. That's expected for hardware. Of course it's free. It better be. ;) )
!! BUT !!
Recording pitch bend, mod wheel, and aftertouch into patterns.
When I got the KSP it never crossed my mind to even begin to wonder about the KSP being able to record these three things. It just seemed obvious that it would. It was a given. No need to mention it. Simply obvious functionality. I was truly shocked when I learned it can't. :o
For me, this is pretty essential. Essential.
I am baffled as to why the KSP can't record these. Someone seriously dropped the ball by forgetting to include these in the first place. But now, after a year of waiting for the firmware update, this capability is still not there? Because ..... Why? ???
What? Is the KSP simply not capable of storing more than five lanes of CC data? ..... I find that hard to believe tho. It's just a bunch of numbers in a table. Adding six more cells of numerical integer data. A few kilobytes of data. ..... Or maybe doing that is too difficult? LMAO no. :P
This is the one thing I was most hoping for and looking forward to in the 2.0 update. I am .... disheartened .. that it hasn't been included. :o :'(
Sure. This can be worked around by assigning those CC#s to knobs and using Control Mode. But that uses up three arbitrary knob controls that could be used for other things. Plus, it defeats the purpose of even having dedicated PB/MW/AT controls in the first place. If they can only be used live ... I mean ... What's the point?
Seriously. Someone explain to me. Of what use is aftertouch on a MIDI keyboard sequencer if it can only be used in real-time while playing live. Not when playing sequences back. THE plus of aftertouch is that you can simply keep your fingers on the keys and play expressively. Record that performance into the sequencer(s). Using a knob for that completely and utterly defeats the purpose of having aftertouch in the first place. Ditto pitch bend and mod wheel.
And let's add the Touch Strip to this list as well. I'm not a big user of it myself, but being able to record its usage into patterns would be wonderful. Be able to record quick 'fills' or something that keep playing back when you've got another track active.
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Hello Artao.
I hope you are well !
It would be wonderful indeed, I thought about it many times but there are a lot of constraints, for example:
- These are continuous parameters while your sequences are steps
- Storing this in the sequences would increase a lot the amount of memory needed for each patterns
- It would require some proper UI to display those (not impossible but challenging in the current implementation)
All the best
Edouard
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Stop promoting it as a 'free' update tho. It seems petty to point that out. That's expected for hardware. Of course it's free. It better be.
No it's not. Let's get one thing straight. They're under no obligation to keep updating a product FOR FREE. Why should they? Would you undertake all that work for free? No you would not.
Bug fixes = yes, you have a right to expect it to work as advertised including the original features it was promoted as having.
Anything else they give you = bonus. They are not obliged to give you more. But they have.
This self-entitled society we have created will be the death of any true innovation and ingenuity because too many people expect everything for jack sh-t.
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Hello Artao.
I hope you are well !
It would be wonderful indeed, I thought about it many times but there are a lot of constraints, for example:
- These are continuous parameters while your sequences are steps
- Storing this in the sequences would increase a lot the amount of memory needed for each patterns
- It would require some proper UI to display those (not impossible but challenging in the current implementation)
All the best
Edouard
Thanks for the info. I noticed that the Control CC knob recording (even though I sweep the knob evenly), is stepped to each step. In other words, I'll play a long chord, and slowly sweep the filter, but the filter jumps rather than being smooth.
Much of my music requires smooth undulating changes. I'm hoping that there is some way to get smooth continuous CC recording. I would be satisfied if there was simply a "smoothing" option (like a lag, slew processor) for the Control CC knob recording. Could you simply add a "Smoothing" option (the software would simply connect/ramp the CC info in the gaps between the steps)?
This would also allow PitchBend and Mod wheel to be recordable as well as it would avoid the memory limitation problem, and also the problem of displaying continuous on the UI. I really really hope this is offered. Users would probably really like pitchbend and mod recording (modular is ALL about knob twiddling).
p.s. Sorry for the long email, and maybe it's in the works, but 'legato' mode would be a wonderful option too. (Maybe you already use a "smoothing" technique on the Keystep37 for legato?)
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Hello Artao.
I hope you are well !
It would be wonderful indeed, I thought about it many times but there are a lot of constraints, for example:
- These are continuous parameters while your sequences are steps
- Storing this in the sequences would increase a lot the amount of memory needed for each patterns
- It would require some proper UI to display those (not impossible but challenging in the current implementation)
All the best
Edouard
I see.
So .. It's not simply recording and storing standard MIDI files? Those are quite tiny, just a few hundred kilobytes. I realize CC data is 8-bit and PB, MW, and AT are 14-bit ... but still.
How much memory is IN the KSP?
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I understand the technical restrictions.
But I really think a legato/glide control could be just implemented as a per-track-switch on/off and one of the encoders could become the glide knob.
If I had such an enhancement for CV OUT and MIDI I would be happy enough. Don't need continuos recording of the live track playing activities.
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No it's not. Let's get one thing straight. They're under no obligation to keep updating a product FOR FREE. Why should they? Would you undertake all that work for free? No you would not.
Bug fixes = yes, you have a right to expect it to work as advertised including the original features it was promoted as having.
Anything else they give you = bonus. They are not obliged to give you more. But they have.
This self-entitled society we have created will be the death of any true innovation and ingenuity because too many people expect everything for jack sh-t.
Your conservative ranting about society is extremely offensive and has no place here in a music product forum. Lets get one thing straight: your aggressive and pathetic tone about providing free updates only confirms that Arturia is not a company I ever want to do business with again.
Lily
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Not sure to understand why you blame Arturia for what users are posting Lily...
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Not sure to understand why you blame Arturia for what users are posting Lily...
He is not just a user, hes a GLOBAL MODERATOR, representing your product on this forum. And you have just made it clear you are fine with his abusive tone about YOUR customers. C'est la vie and so long, Edourard.
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Good grief. <sigh> ???
I regret saying anything about firmware updates inherently and assumedly being free.
WAY off-topic.
I personally just gave his post an eye-roll and moved on.
Let's get back to being able to record PB, MW, and AT shall we?
It HAS TO be doable?
Eduoard, is the KSP NOT recording in standard MIDI format?
And how much memory does the KSP have anyhow?
Again, I realize PB, MW and AT are 14-bit, but that's not THAT much of a data storage space increase. Still well under a meg per-pattern, no?
Of course, if you're using a proprietary format, NOT std MIDI, I can see how things might be different. Consider switching? ;)
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Somehow tho, other equipment manages to record such continuous control signals with decent enuf fidelity. The Volcas, for instance. They're step-based as well. But the "motion recording" (Korg's term) is pretty smooth.
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Good grief. <sigh> ???
I regret saying anything about firmware updates inherently and assumedly being free.
WAY off-topic.
I personally just gave his post an eye-roll and moved on.
Let's get back to being able to record PB, MW, and AT shall we?
It HAS TO be doable?
Eduoard, is the KSP NOT recording in standard MIDI format?
And how much memory does the KSP have anyhow?
Again, I realize PB, MW and AT are 14-bit, but that's not THAT much of a data storage space increase. Still well under a meg per-pattern, no?
Of course, if you're using a proprietary format, NOT std MIDI, I can see how things might be different. Consider switching? ;)
..
Somehow tho, other equipment manages to record such continuous control signals with decent enuf fidelity. The Volcas, for instance. They're step-based as well. But the "motion recording" (Korg's term) is pretty smooth.
Hello Artao !
I will try to think about a solution.
Another way to add expressivity to the sequence would be to have slides, which would involve less memory.
Best
Edouard
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Slides would be cool! Make 303 aciiieeeed lines with that!!!
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Hello Artao !
I will try to think about a solution.
Another way to add expressivity to the sequence would be to have slides, which would involve less memory.
Best
Edouard
I'll keep holding out hope. 8)
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Hello Artao.
I hope you are well !
It would be wonderful indeed, I thought about it many times but there are a lot of constraints, for example:
- These are continuous parameters while your sequences are steps
- Storing this in the sequences would increase a lot the amount of memory needed for each patterns
- It would require some proper UI to display those (not impossible but challenging in the current implementation)
All the best
Edouard
Already said, but slide shouldn't be so hard maybe. And it would be great!
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If we could just get this to the level of what the Korg Volcas can do for parameter recording I would be happy. Surely that can't be too difficult?? Even if the resolution for CV changes is super low, we could at least use a slew limiter to get things a little smoother. At least give us an option.
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Slide is not adequate, as that's a totally different thing. Pitch-bend can do way more. Slide just ... well ... it's just sliding between two notes. Can't do vibrato for instance. Or trills. Which is something the touch-strip pitch-bend is WONDERFUL for.
Again, we're talking kilobytes here, not megabytes. MIDI CC, PB, MW, and AT were developed in the 80s when 64KB was a large amount of RAM ... for a computer, not to mention a synth. The data was MEANT to be stored in small amounts of memory, because it had to be. I do not see how memory could possibly be an issue. A single step in the sequencer can't possibly be more than a couple few kilobytes. If it's more than that ... well .... Very poor design decisions were made.
How much memory (or lack thereof) does the KSP have anyhow? In RAM terms.
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Hello Artao.
I hope you are well !
It would be wonderful indeed, I thought about it many times but there are a lot of constraints, for example:
- These are continuous parameters while your sequences are steps
- Storing this in the sequences would increase a lot the amount of memory needed for each patterns
- It would require some proper UI to display those (not impossible but challenging in the current implementation)
All the best
Edouard
I guess the UI wasn't conceived for handling continuous automation.
However it would be nice to have at least *per-step* recording/editing of mod-wheel.
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Stop promoting it as a 'free' update tho. It seems petty to point that out. That's expected for hardware. Of course it's free. It better be.
No it's not. Let's get one thing straight. They're under no obligation to keep updating a product FOR FREE. Why should they? Would you undertake all that work for free? No you would not.
Bug fixes = yes, you have a right to expect it to work as advertised including the original features it was promoted as having.
Anything else they give you = bonus. They are not obliged to give you more. But they have.
This self-entitled society we have created will be the death of any true innovation and ingenuity because too many people expect everything for jack sh-t.
They are obliged AT LEAST to add the futures of the original keystep since they want to call it keystep pro