Arturia Forums
Harware Legacy versions => Origin => General Discussion on Origin => Topic started by: MindPoP_ on January 20, 2011, 10:42:52 pm
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Let me start by saying I really dig the company Arturia, they have done great plugin work. I like my Origin. I hoped for more. This unit is far from pro gear. It fails constantly. It can not work on so many levels. It hangs constantly (i.e. the panic button) like no other gear. None of my synths need a panic button because none of my synths hang. An example of this is my tenori on will run every synth perfect but once I plug in to my origin it flips it out. I am working on a new track now with Steinberg and every 2 minutes I must hit the panic button.
This in my opinion is very unpro..I am afraid to use it live. I would sell my unit but would not rip someone off. They would blame me for the issues which this unit faces. I dont care about more templates, I just want a working unit. Please fix the stabillity of this product..I have not done the new updates because I am not a beta tester, and do not want to play games. If this was a car you would have to do a recall and fix every unit at your cost. I am afraid their is no fix because it exists in the hardware not the software, and it will never work properly for this reason..I have waited long enough, so please Arturia man up and fix this ..I would never take my customers money than sit back and tell them they are F-ed . I would give them their money back and appologise for the problem, or replace the defect with a perfect remade unit, or not sell any units at all. So please since you have my money, and I am stuck with my Origin help me enjoy it. It currently is my most expensive failure.
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P.s. if I add a midi filter and allow only note on note off thru the hanging is less , but I want to use the controll surface too (i.e. filter cut off, so on). I sequence with Cubase 5, and some times Ableton Live. I own 10 synths currently and as said before none of them have a panic button. Every now and then I get a hanging not here or there but in cubase I hit the midi reset button . Each of my keyboards might get caught once in a blue moon, maybe every year or so once, the origin hangs at least 5 times a session, the cubase reset button wont rest the origin only the panic button will, and this makes me more mad because Arturia new this and so built the panic button as a solution. Didnt fix the hardware just built an idiot button. Why???????
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I have to agree, the hanging is a problem. Its the only synth in my studio that has this issue and I have the same fears about using it live. Also, the loading up time is so long that I worry about it switching off/on during a gig. There are other simple tech glitches in the unit too like the master volume resetting to 0.
For nearly £2000 just for the rack unit you would expect a bit more class, but if Arturia manage to acheive everything they want from this synth it could eventually make most other studio synths redundant. This is the most ambitious synth project currently going and that makes the holes here and there tolerable.
That's why it doesn't make it a waste of money yet, Origin is so versatile that its really settled into my studio and workflow quite comfortably. Don't get too frustrated. Hopefully they'll iron out the problems over the next few updates and you'll feel that your money was well spent.
That said, I'm hoping that now the Keyboard version is out, the updates will be quicker this year. Its been over 2 years since the first Origin shipped and Arturia are still yet to officially release a second template (although this is imminent). I think it requires a level of faith in Arturia to own an Origin and hopefully they'll deliver on that in time.
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Hi guys!
Here's another sad story about Origin desktop:
Some time ago I started to use AF-software and MiniMg V (I still do) which liked a lot. Now when I had this money I decided to buy Origin for live use. As professional keyboard player I do 100 to 150 gigs per year for living. So my idea was to have those sounds to stage without liability problems you always have with computer.
With Origin what happened? It's much more unreliable than my mac-based softsynth setup. From the very beginning I had problems with knobs; some of reacted without touching, some didn't give lowest or highest values. I reported this to my local dealer and then Scandinavian importor. First they tried to fix it here but it was obvious that they could not have replacement parts. Then I sent it to Sweden for more than a month. Yesterday I got it back. They had managed to repair few of those malfunctioning knobs but after 20 minutes testing I found 4-5 new broken knobs. Then I contacted to import company again and they said that they cannot give me a new unit or any guarantee that they can fix it reasonable time (they have lack of spairs I think). So it was their idea to cancel the deal. For me it's only reasonable thing to do at this time. Still I feel very disappointed cause I spent whole week of studying this machine and in fact I spent 300euros for special flight case and K&M-special stand (BTW is there anyone willing to buy them from me? :) ).
So I have had very bad technical problems with this module but then again there are all those firmware/software based problems as well (crashing etc.). Then all the customer support and delays in updates. List goes on and on. So I must say I have lost my faith to this machine and to this company...
I am very sorry for Arturia for their products which are great in principal but no in practise. I also have big big problems with their AF-controller (but it's a another story which you read on that forum).
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MindPoP_
I have not done the new updates because I am not a beta tester, and do not want to play games.
You really should update to the latest firmware (the latest is Version_1.3.14 and a newer in under preparation and should be made available for download soon). This firmware contains numerous fixes - including fixes on the MIDI messages management by the DSPs. It is now very close to the final release version so you're not taking a big risk here. And we do want to know if this version fixes your problem with the tenori on.
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MindPop, I think you misunderstood our intentions, which are, with maximum priority, to improve the stability and reliability of Origin with all these updates. It is true that the first version was quite bugged, but then the 1.1 and 1.2 firmware was released, and now with the 1.2.5 firmware we have a quite stable version and very few users are complaining about it. Sure, there are still some bugs which are reported, and thanks to these reports we are able to correct them in the 1.3 which is about to be released. And if you have any problem, like this hanging problem with your tenori-on and with Cubase, please report it and we will try to solve it.
and this makes me more mad because Arturia new this and so built the panic button as a solution. Didnt fix the hardware just built an idiot button. Why???????
This is not true: First, many synthesizers have a panic button, even some analog synths. The purpose of the panic button is to stop all notes and it's indeed very useful if the MIDI source you are connected to sends some corrupted data (for example once I owned a bugged Alesis IO|2 interface which was constantly "missing" some Note Off events from my keyboard, and I was very happy to have a Panic button on my synth, even if the synth was working well). Second, Arturia didn't know this before today, since the problem you are talking about has not been reported before. So please open a thread about this and we will find a solution.
Kidharpoon: Same thing for you, these problems about note hanging should be reported in order to be fixed... We are about to release a firmware update in the next days, the next one will be many months later, so if there is a chance that this issue gets corrected now, we should catch it and talk about this problem as soon as possible, in the right place (i.e. a dedicated thread in the Technical Problems board). About the problem of master volume resetting to 0, what firmware version do you have now? We have corrected this recently.
JacksonP: This is a very sad story. The problem here is that the swedish distributor has not followed the rules which are to send the unit back to us in France (you could also have sent it directly to us), and they tried to repair the unit by themselves. In your case, it seems that the whole front panel had to be replaced, while they have probably just replaced some knobs.
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We are about to release a firmware update in the next days, the next one will be many months later,
STOP !!!
According the milesstones the next Firmware is going to be released in Q1/2011, which ends in my calendar with 31.03.
I know that this is quiet unrealistic, but Arturia please... Always it is said, that you are a small company with limited manpower. But why do I see new products there, when the existing ones should got more attention?
I have no big complaints about my 1.2.5. Origin and I hope the smaller bugs are gone with the final release of 1.3., but please communicate with your customers! And please keep your promises!
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Superwaldi, the milestones are written by marketing people and that information is not really up to date. On the other hand what you can read on the forum is really up-to-date information. We will release the 1.3 in the next days, maybe beginning of next week if no new problem is reported by beta-test. Next version won't be released before July 2011.
The reason why there are some teams that are working on new products while some other teams work on Origin, is just that Origin updates are free and Arturia is not making money with them. And despite the high cost of the Origin, we don't make much money when we sell an Origin, because the production is expensive. So we NEED to work on new products at the same time, otherwise we would't even be able to work on Origin updates!
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I have a much more stable setup when I run the master keyboard via my MPC-1k. When I connect for example the SH-201 directly into the Origin I get the same results like Mindpop, frequent note hanging. I do not filter any data though, and it still works great.
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It seems that some devices like the tenori-on and the SH-201 send particular MIDI messages that result in note hanging in Origin. Since we don't have any of these two here, it would be interesting to make a record of the MIDI sent to Origin when the note hanging occurs. This would allow us to reproduce and correct easily the problem.
The simplest way to do that is to connect a SH-201 or a tenori-on to the PC, install (if needed) and run MIDI-OX, and send the MIDI back to Origin. MIDI OX will display all MIDI messages in the Input or Output window.
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Just a quick note:
Windows ==> MIDI-OX (http://www.midiox.com)
Mac OS X ==> MIDI Monitor (http://www.snoize.com/MIDIMonitor)
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You test it . It is a problem you created then profited from . I do not work for you. It is not my job to tech your product. Thats actualy an insult. If my unit was free I would feel inclined to solve your problems, but alas I am a customer. You go buy a tenori on or any device and test in shop. Or give me a 50% rebate and I will help you .. As it stands I was sold a unit years ago that still lags.. I would never do this to my customers. EVER. I have owned my own store for 17 years in the Las Vegas airport and Ill back my product to DEATH. I go to the mountain and ring the bell every day. And I would never sugest my customers f off on their own after they pay me. I solve the problem.
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Nobody is thinking about insulting you. You are right, it is our job to test and correct all the problems, not yours.
But, sometimes some bug may slip through and finish in official commercial versions. In a product as complex as Origin, since possibilities are unlimited, we can't test every possible situation. And I can guarantee that you can find bugs even in the products from the biggest and more famous companies.
Now, sure, we will correct that bug. It is your right not to help us, and wait until we find all the needed information alone. It will only take more time, while if you want to collaborate it could be faster, that's all.
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Next version won't be released before July 2011.
The reason why there are some teams that are working on new products while some other teams work on Origin, is just that Origin updates are free and Arturia is not making money with them.
More than 5 month for the next update??!!!ummm a lot of time for the CS-80 template. I'm very dissapointed with this dates...
Can you tell that marketing people to correct the milestones document and show the real one?.
I know that the updates are free, but remember we (customers) have an incomplete machine since there are a lot of missing features "* To be delivered later on as a free upgrade".
And please can you fix the bug that me and other reported in the two threats "
Origin Golden Master (?) Version 1.3.7" and "1.3 firmware sneak preview " (See attached image).
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Whilst glitches experienced to date are a problem, this seems to be commonplace with software based audio products.
Ableton 8 suffered serious stability problems way beyond the problems I've experienced with origin and needed an official apology to be issued by the CEO.
Evidence to date shows that hardware is generally not the problem but the way in which software operates. This can be fixed and improved over time.
The latest version seems to be relatively stable for me and i certainly do not consider my origin use to date a failure.
as stated in music tech mag origin has few direct synth competitors due to its unusual range of sounds. Considering the volume of synth types out thats pretty good going
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MindPop,
the last email we received from you back in June 2009 when we inquired about how your new Origin was working for you, was:
"My Origin rules, I am playing it now, writing a song with it"
Also, you posted on this forum in February 2010 to the question :Who owns an Origin?":
"I have one in Las Vegas NV USA and it rules. I have alot of fun with it."
Nothing else since then.
I am puzzled by your posts today.
Sean
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I love the Origin, and its a really useful unit. I have no major complaints. Although, I do agree that the updates should be more of a priority, as a lot of the stuff we're waiting for was part of the reason in buying it. No-one's doing us a favor by making the updates, its delivering on a promise.
Once the Origin is fully loaded and all promised templates/modules are in place, I'd be happy to pay for additional content too rather than all development ceasing. Just floating that out there.
Anyway, July is a long time for the next update, but I've got enough to get my head round til then.
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Next version won't be released before July 2011.
The reason why there are some teams that are working on new products while some other teams work on Origin, is just that Origin updates are free and Arturia is not making money with them.
More than 5 month for the next update??!!!ummm a lot of time for the CS-80 template. I'm very dissapointed with this dates...
I have to agree with this. I'm puzzled as to why you guys chose the Jupiter 8 for your first new template when we can easily create a JP-8 with the modules on the Origin now. Was it just to see how well and quickly you could add this new template? ;)
The CS-80 is the synth which can't be made properly in the Origin as it is now. I can't seem to get my Mg Modular V to work without bad latency with any of my PCs, so getting the CS-80 software is out of the question right now. I know this has to be a beast to squeeze into the machine, but it seems obvious to me that since everything else can be cobbled together fairly completely, the 80 should be the focus of your efforts. Then again, considering the arduous task it's been to make the Jupiter, maybe a little more time is in order... ;D
The Origin I have now, v 1.25 I believe, is behaving very well, a little low in output level - okay, very low, but the sound is unmatched except by the actual analog gear it emulates, or perhaps an Andromeda which sadly I can't seem to get my hands on. And I can fudge some CS-80 timbres very well with your box, so I won't complain... too loudly. Especially since even the incredible KORG Kronos looming on the horizon won't be able to do some of what the Little O can do.
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I'd like to know how many of you are really using it on a stage? Can you trust it like any other hardware? It seems to me that most of the people here are using at home or at studio. It's not so big deal if it crashes sometimes; but when this happens on stage in the middle of the song and reseting it takes so long this can be a catastrophe. As said earlier I was hoping to have a powerful synth which I can trust. This trust is unfortunately gone; Ok, I admit I have had obviously very poor individual unit. But when I add to that my other bad experiences with Arturia hardware (AF-controller), very slow support and firmware problems, for me it is hard to believe that quite many professional keyboard players would count on that kind of thing. Arturia is selling something which is not ready yet.
Anyway I had my Origin for about 2 months and over a month it has been taken from me for warranty repair. I have no time to wait 1 or 2 months to have it finally fully repaired. I have gigs to make and I need a synth that I can trust. Simple as that.
Sad thing is that I like Origin sound and its design. I chose this module after a long process of testing and reading about different things. On the other hand I have learned also Origins limits as a sound module; for me it was very inspiring but also far from perfect. Anyway now I have to move to something more liable thing.
Let's see if in the future I can give Origin a new change. But then I have be sure that Arturia has really fixed those software issues and hardware is really made for normal gigging.
I've said this on the Analog Factory forum but I repeat it here: Beware Arturia! Too much critic on the internet about your products... Your company brand is going down with too many problems. All I can see now is critic here and there.
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I can use my Origin in any situation very well. Just have to switch on my MPC with certain master keyboards. Funny, other boards than the SH-201 don't seem to call for hanging notes. So, there must be a certain combination, maybe a grounding thing?
If I find time I will record the midi data from the Roland. Not sure, I will need a midi splitter as well and since I am not using much of my computer in the studio this might never happen.
On another note, I can care less about the templates. The Jp8 is actually a very nice sounding one but to buy the Origin for the templates is a mute point. I am pretty happy with what I have and actually was very impressed by the small amount of bugs in the first software cycles.
Ahhh, and do not get me started that updates are free when all what Arturia is doing is to just for-filling your promises. That is a low one. It is time that you get a real customer person who is handling all the communication instead of letting the engineers insulting us. That doesn't promote sales neither.
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They aren't insulting us. They're stating facts calmly and rationally, and I hadn't considered their point.
Arturia is a small company. The Origin is selling all right, but it apparently isn't setting the synth world on fire with high volume of sales. They have to provide cheaper alternatives to provide some income. They need this income to keep paying their engineers and designers. They won't work for free. So we should all be glad that they're working for months and years to keep improving the Origin and giving it new features, because working a long time on software that they give away is a big resource drain on a company which is probably living on a rather narrow margin.
I didn't buy the Origin for its templates either. I bought it for the wealth of virtual synthesizer modules which I can use to make all kinds of new sounds. And not just that, but new virtual instruments. I knew it would sound very good. I didn't know that it would sound unbelievably good.
Having said that, I really do want to see that CS-80 template badly. Unfortunately, it just doesn't have the power to let me build a full blown CS-80 in it. I have to settle for most of one, and to rely on my Radias, Virus and M3 to provide lesser alternatives if I want to throw in more CS-like elements, like the ring modulator, or two full voices with lots of filters and modulation running. And they do a pretty good job. I'd rather do it on the Origin, but I make do, and wait for the day that the CS-80 template shows up on my screen. ;)
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Superwaldi, the milestones are written by marketing people and that information is not really up to date. On the other hand what you can read on the forum is really up-to-date information. We will release the 1.3 in the next days, maybe beginning of next week if no new problem is reported by beta-test. Next version won't be released before July 2011.
The reason why there are some teams that are working on new products while some other teams work on Origin, is just that Origin updates are free and Arturia is not making money with them. And despite the high cost of the Origin, we don't make much money when we sell an Origin, because the production is expensive. So we NEED to work on new products at the same time, otherwise we would't even be able to work on Origin updates!
Thanks for the explanations but please understand that I (as a customer) don't care about this. There were promises as I bought the unit and there was a timeline. Don't get me wrong... I am happy with my Origin generally, but all the official communication from Arturia side is a kind of poor. I just want that Arturia is paying more attention to this.
I see some engaged people as you here around the forum, which are in direct contact with the Origin users, therefore it is a pitty, that you people are blamed instead of the "management", which is responsible for the intransparent company policy.
Moreover it is not that much work, to keep the website up to date.
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I'd like to know how many of you are really using it on a stage? Can you trust it like any other hardware? It seems to me that most of the people here are using at home or at studio.
I've read about other live acts having back up plans in the event of equipment failure particularly with software based set ups. Even a basic CD / audio player to switch to that has a pre-recorded set can give time to get the live rig back up and running without letting the audience realise that there's a major foul up.
I have used my origin out at small events but if I do proper gigs in future I will have other gear linked to my system to ensure any crash does not lead to an embarrassing silence!
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But one more point about this live use and it's not about software/firaware problem. That's what I am maybe more worried about Origin: Does it last (for years) with normal portable use; putting to case, sometimes bumby roads, putting to stand and back to case and back to car etc.etc.? And situations like that 50-100 gigs per year for example. This is what I want from my hardware synth. Machine with so many knobs and obviously complicated structure inside (they say that it's difficult or even impossible to repair it elsewhere than in france) made me re-think the whole issue again.
Have anyone of you put it to test like this?
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Have to admit I would like a purpose built padded flight case. The joystick in particular is at risk of damage. If I do start taking it out regularly this will be a priority.
(NB Did Superwaldi say he was selling one?)
It seems like a solid piece of hardware but only time will tell if it they are prone to fault after extensive live use.
I tend to treat mine like a fragile object and always consider placement to ensure accident potential is limited
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They aren't insulting us. They're stating facts calmly and rationally, and I hadn't considered their point.
I think it is time that they consider our point. When I bought the Origin there were certain things promised by the end of that year. And that year was 2009.
Now, I can understand when things need more time or you run into a road block. Just seeing how the last beta went I feel that Arturia doesn't have the right tester base either. However, that is all fine with me. But stating that the work is postponed because you don't earn enough with the instrument or you need to do some other new developments first is not fair. You got my money upfront, now it is time to deliver.
I bet Arturia could sell much more Origins when they would address issues and promises more timely and polite. And they certainly could ask for more money too. But they chose to go a different route.
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Have to admit I would like a purpose built padded flight case.
(NB Did Superwaldi say he was selling one?)
No, he didn't.
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My thoughts:
- The sound of the Origin con not be denied. I have a TON of gear, and as far as analog sound goes, Origin has them all beat. Now....with that said:
-As a company, you can not really expect us to just go with you guys telling us that you are not making enough money to support Origin. How much money did it cost to develop that new drum machine I see on your homepage? You simply CAN NOT use the "we are a small company" excuse if you are selling $2000 synths. For that kind of money, we expect support. It is a slap in face to tell us that you are selling the unit for so cheap that you can not support it without building other units.
-When I bought my Origin, I did so because of some of the promises made about what the unit would do. The MAIN reason I purchased it, was because you said that you were developing a VST plugin that would run with Origin in my DAW. I even email you guys to ask about it. NOW, you have since totally removed this advertisement from the website. Is this still in developement? Can you give a reasonable date for the release? I have owned the unit for 1 1/2 years now....is it REALLY taking that long, or is this feature not coming? And if you can not give us a date for this feature 2 years after you said it was on the way, how can you expect us to believe anything you are saying AT ALL?
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My thoughts:
- The sound of the Origin con not be denied. I have a TON of gear, and as far as analog sound goes, Origin has them all beat. Now....with that said:
-As a company, you can not really expect us to just go with you guys telling us that you are not making enough money to support Origin. How much money did it cost to develop that new drum machine I see on your homepage? You simply CAN NOT use the "we are a small company" excuse if you are selling $2000 synths. For that kind of money, we expect support. It is a slap in face to tell us that you are selling the unit for so cheap that you can not support it without building other units.
-When I bought my Origin, I did so because of some of the promises made about what the unit would do. The MAIN reason I purchased it, was because you said that you were developing a VST plugin that would run with Origin in my DAW. I even email you guys to ask about it. NOW, you have since totally removed this advertisement from the website. Is this still in developement? Can you give a reasonable date for the release? I have owned the unit for 1 1/2 years now....is it REALLY taking that long, or is this feature not coming? And if you can not give us a date for this feature 2 years after you said it was on the way, how can you expect us to believe anything you are saying AT ALL?
I'm completely agree with you. The most painful for me is that there will be no updates in 6 months...
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MindPop,
the last email we received from you back in June 2009 when we inquired about how your new Origin was working for you, was:
"My Origin rules, I am playing it now, writing a song with it"
Also, you posted on this forum in February 2010 to the question :Who owns an Origin?":
"I have one in Las Vegas NV USA and it rules. I have alot of fun with it."
Nothing else since then.
I am puzzled by your posts today.
Sean
I was being kind for Aturia to show support. I guess Im a liar for Arturia. I was being kind to revup intrest I appologise and will only complain from now on and not just be a whiping boy.The unit is cool dont get me wrong but the errors are agregious. ps.. my friend wants to know if your new i-pad app has a panic button?
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MindPop, you are here "at home", we love you and don't want any bitter taste in your mouth. You are not a fanboy, nor an hater, just an objective Origin user and we thank you for that. We accept contradiction, we respect your views, and deeply appreciate your support.
Be sure all your comments, as well as other users constructive ones, are always debated here internally to drive the developments on the Origin, to make the good choices. We keep a strong eye on this forum, and my colleagues Philippe and Niccolo particularly focus on the Origin threads. Even if they are rather used to speak to machines than with human beings, they share the same "humble" goal: offer the best machine possible.
So let's all try to keep our positive mind, this will help to fasten the release of the next Origin firmware, in which we are more and more confident everyday.
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Cool and you guys do rule every plugin you have ever made is the best and thats for shure my only issue was the hanging notes .I was one of the first to buy. And will allways be a customer.
Thanks
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Well I have just purched a new 1.3 Origin and guess what; still full of bugs, freezing up from time to time and bad encoders in just one week. Return to seller for full refund because I just do not have time to waste on half cooked synths.